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lukas
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closed thread

#1 Post by lukas »

Can someone enlighten me why this thread was closed
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319

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golinux
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Re: closed thread

#2 Post by golinux »

lukas wrote:Can someone enlighten me why this thread was closed
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319
Here's a guess . . . mods are allergic to a mention of Devuan (which is now in beta without systemd)
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Re: closed thread

#3 Post by lukas »

allergic or not, there are rules and, imho, they should be accepted by the mods too.
i am not sure the thread mentioned devuan that much anyway.

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Re: closed thread

#4 Post by arochester »

Devuan now has its own website and forum. It does not belong here any more.

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Re: closed thread

#5 Post by lukas »

that is fine, but the thread isn't about devuan.

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Re: closed thread

#6 Post by arochester »

This is not the place to discuss alternative Operating Systems.

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Re: closed thread

#7 Post by lukas »

fyi:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10653
"Stay on topic. Sometimes threads morph into something completely off topic, this is unavoidable when a bunch of people communicate. However, try to limit the off topic discussions to the off topic category. Long off topic discussions in other categories might get moved or locked.
Discussions in "Off topic" should still be in the spirit of this board, that is related to Linux/ Computers/ Software etc. Political, religious or racial discussions do not belong on this board."
I guess you assume that alternative operating systems have got nothing to do with Linux/Computers/Software

k. I am done here. Not that entertaining anyway. bunch of wannabes with no clue.

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Re: closed thread

#8 Post by oswaldkelso »

arochester did you lock the thread? If you did it's shameful behaviour on your part and not something that is expected of this forum. Letting your personal feeling disrupt a popular thread that is of such interest to many is not what we expect. 44.000 views FFS and with in the forum guidelines.

A thread that you contributed to I might add. Grow some balls and unlock it please.
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Re: closed thread

#9 Post by mardybear »

Shame-on-whoever for sure. Very sad indeed. Locking a thread to discuss alternative OS in the off-topic area - silly.
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Re: closed thread

#10 Post by arochester »

I locked the post and I will not unlock it.

If you believe that I have been unfair please contact an Administrator and make a case to have me removed as a Moderator.

The topic had become terribly one sided, biased and had outlived its usefulness. Even though it is "Offtopic". The last post in the topic pointed out that there is a comprehensive list on the Devuan website. Job done. Go there for information.

Does anyone want to write a topic listing distros that DO use systemd? It will be considerably longer than the list of distros that DO NOT use systemd - and of course it will include Debian.

Does anyone want to write a topic, in "Offtopic", explaining fully how Ubuntu is wonderful and we should all use it?

Eric de Bono in his Thinking Tools has an exercise called PMI. People have to complete three columns and write down everything that is P-Positive, M-Minus and I-Interesting (neither positive nor negative). The anti-systemd lobby seem intent on telling us everything that they think is wrong with systemd and nothing that is right.

(Spot the signature that says "Running systemd free on Dragora GNU/linux-libre..." Pro or anti? )

"something that is expected of this forum". Unfettered ability to say whatever you want? Is that what EVERYBODY wants? Even the spammers?

What do you think Moderators are here for? Should we all just pack up and go away and let you get on with it?

What does EVERYONE think Moderators are here for?

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Re: closed thread

#11 Post by GarryRicketson »

What do you think Moderators are here for? Should we all just pack up and go away and let you get on with it?
No, we need good moderators, and this forum would be a mess if there were not any.
What does EVERYONE think Moderators are here for?
To decide if and when topics should be locked, removed or what ever, as well as other
tasks, like when people post in the wrong topic, those posts need to be moved, etc,..
There is more, but I do not feel like listing everything just now.
And locking a topic is not that bad, I mean the topic is still there everybody can still read
it, all of the non-systemd distros being promoted in it are still listed.
It had reached a point where they were just "re-listing" the same ones that had all ready been mentioned earlier when the topic got started.
The topic had become terribly one sided, biased and had outlived its usefulness. Even though it is "Offtopic". The last post in the topic pointed out that there is a comprehensive list on the Devuan website. Job done. Go there for information.
And it is not right that when a moderator makes a decision, for a small group to start trying to bully them .

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Re: closed thread

#12 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

GarryRicketson wrote: It had reached a point where they were just "re-listing" the same ones that had all ready been mentioned earlier when the topic got started.
^ This.

Although I do think that closing the thread rather than just letting it die quietly in the corner is somewhat contrary to the spirit of these boards but then again I am a relative newcomer.
deadbang

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Re: closed thread

#13 Post by GarryRicketson »

golinux wrote:
lukas wrote:Can someone enlighten me why this thread was closed
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118319
Here's a guess . . . mods are allergic to a mention of Devuan (which is now in beta without systemd)
This does not have any grounds, if it was because the moderators have a problem with any posts mentioning Devuan, why did they not just remove all the posts that mention
Devaun, ? And there are a lot of them.
I would be more inclined to say, "Thank you for leaving the links to the Devaun site", and thank you for not removing the entire thread, with all the other links, that promote other Os's , the topic/thread is still there for anybody that wants to read it, and all the links are still there for anybody to follow, if they want to.
If the mod was targeting Devaun, or the Devaun web site, he would not allowed the last post :

Re: operating systems without systemd

Postby edbarx » 2016-04-28 23:58
I have just discovered Devuan's website neatly presents a list of OSs without systemd. Click here to view and scroll down to view the heading GNU/Linux Distributions without systemd.
Indeed, if anything this should help promote the website and get more people to go there, and post there, instead of here. Isn't that what you want ?
Really, you all should be saying thank you, instead of complaining.

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Re: closed thread

#14 Post by golinux »

arochester wrote:Does anyone want to write a topic listing distros that DO use systemd? It will be considerably longer than the list of distros that DO NOT use systemd - and of course it will include Debian.
A longer list of distros using systemd does not prove anything except that when the herd starts jumping over the cliff many will follow.
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Re: closed thread

#15 Post by mardybear »

arochester wrote:
I locked the post and I will not unlock it.
Always great to run into someone who's willing to discuss issues.
If you believe that I have been unfair please contact an Administrator and make a case to have me removed as a Moderator.
Administrator's on this forum are so involved, they'll probably hop right to it and address any concerns. Odd that this almost no moderation forum suddenly gets 'moderated'.

The topic had become terribly one sided, biased and had outlived its usefulness. Even though it is "Offtopic". The last post in the topic pointed out that there is a comprehensive list on the Devuan website. Job done. Go there for information.
It's a thread about non systemd distributions - one sided? How about focused on the topic of non-systemd. Take a look at the edbarx Devuan link, it only touches on a few distributions. I actually just added a new distribution to the systemd free thread a couple weeks ago, so it's not dead yet and another member just queried rebuilding the list for readability.
Does anyone want to write a topic listing distros that DO use systemd? It will be considerably longer than the list of distros that DO NOT use systemd - and of course it will include Debian.
Go ahead...
Does anyone want to write a topic, in "Offtopic", explaining fully how Ubuntu is wonderful and we should all use it?
Whatever, gosh darn it this rhetoric really enforces your logic - great job buddy. Actually, there's already an active thread regarding this, please lock it down immediately.
Eric de Bono in his Thinking Tools has an exercise called PMI. People have to complete three columns and write down everything that is P-Positive, M-Minus and I-Interesting (neither positive nor negative). The anti-systemd lobby seem intent on telling us everything that they think is wrong with systemd and nothing that is right.
Welcome to the future where free speech will be lost and heaven forbid anybody express an actual opinion. To be a consistent moderator, please ensure all threads now discuss all of the positive, negative and 'interesting' aspects of the topic. For example, running stable is preferred for new users, then be sure to add but it may limit access to newer software and even if there isn't anything 'interesting' about the topic just make something up. Please ensure all threads are now comprehensive in this regard.
(Spot the signature that says "Running systemd free on Dragora GNU/linux-libre..." Pro or anti? )
All members please ensure your signatures express both positives and negatives, don't forget to add something 'interesting'.
"something that is expected of this forum". Unfettered ability to say whatever you want? Is that what EVERYBODY wants? Even the spammers?
Would be nice to have a forum where people can express opinions. Me thinks just happened somebody said something you didn't want to hear. See earlier reference regarding selective moderation.
What do you think Moderators are here for? Should we all just pack up and go away and let you get on with it?
Well that's how it used to be, guess it's now a 'moderated forum'. Please then go ahead and moderate. The current active topics list displays 50 active threads. Of these, three are marked solved and several others should also be marked solved. Please close these, they're done. Also close the screenshots thread, >300 pages of non-Debian systems, gross. Second thought delete the entire thread, don't leave evidence. Please close all threads started by uninformed or lazy newcomers once they've been informed to read the manual. For consistency, also close all other 'off-topic' threads. Current threads this might include:
- Unity desktop discussion
- frankenDebian
- recycled Introduction thread
- four pages of 'Quality of Forum'
- Iceweasel renamed Firefox (really just an announcement)
- Canonical discussion
- How to update testing - seriously
What does EVERYONE think Moderators are here for?
Moderators serve a purpose, selective moderation based on personal preference is silly and an abuse of *power* (used loosely). If you want to moderate, the 'to do' list above awaits. Thanks.
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Re: closed thread

#16 Post by GarryRicketson »

by mardybear »
Would be nice to have a forum where people can express opinions.

If you want a forum for discussing "opinions", and we all know what those are like, everyone has one, but Why don't you do that, start a forum, for expressing "opinions" ?
and you could just let it run wild, since you do not want moderation or administration.
==============================
by arochester »What do you think Moderators are here for? Should we all just pack up and go away and let you get on with it?
And this response:
by mardybear » Well that's how it used to be, guess it's now a 'moderated forum'. Please then go ahead and moderate.
It has been moderated for a long time, now, if not all ways, from what I can see
moderation started in 2006-02-06 at 10:50
See this: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=3593
I think your thinking of that other forum, I forget the name of it, but I do remember browsing it, and it was not moderated, and it was so full of mixed up junk, about other OS's, and endless arguements, I could not find anything related to the problem with Debian I was having, I still did join, and asked my question, but shortly after I found this one, found a solution to my problem, and got some real use full explanations that helped fill in some details I had not found in my searches.
The other forum was such a mess , I never did go back to it, except once , when this one was temporarily down , in hopes that there might be something about that and there was, but still it was so full of arguing and other discussions not at all related to what I am interested in, which is Debian, any way, to bad I can not remember the name of that other forum, if I could I would suggest "hanging out" there,..it is not moderated, and you can argue, and post rants on "free speech" to your hearts content.



==============================
by mardybear »Welcome to the future where free speech will be lost and heaven forbid anybody express an actual opinion.
Give me a break, the old "free speech" is being threatened argument just does not cut it. You are free to start any kind of forum or website you want, and say what you want on it. Like wise other forums and websites have every right to decide what is permitted and what isn't.
Another reason that argument is worthless, as I mentioned earlier, if it was a matter of not allowing people to express opinions or share about other OS's, and "free speech"
The topic/thread would have been deleted, and it wasn't, everything in it is still viewable and can be read by the public, nobodies right to "free speech" has been violated. The topic was locked, so no more things can be added, but nothing was removed. In fact even in the topic, it was mentioned how there were so many listed in to many replies, and they should/could all be put into one post. Some one could do that, and have the list on a website, and have a link to it in their signature. Your "free speech" argument does not stand up.
===========================
by mardybear »Administrator's on this forum are so involved, they'll probably hop right to it and address any concerns. Odd that this almost no moderation forum suddenly gets 'moderated'.
Have you ever actually tried to contact one, in the correct manner ?
Details here:
HOWTO contact forum moderators/admins
I see at least 1 admin check in daily, and often there is many reports to be reviewed, and acted on, also there are posts topics that get locked, or even completely removed (deleted) and other things that get done by the administrators, 2 are the most active, and they do check in daily, their presence and what they do is not noticed by most members/users, but the point is, they are involved.
Please close all threads started by uninformed or lazy newcomers once they've been informed to read the manual. For consistency, also close all other 'off-topic' threads. Current threads this might include:
I do agree, there perhaps should be a major "house cleaning", and a stricter approach taken , but are you sure you would really want to see all of the "off-topic" threads closed ? I don't think most members would want that, including me.
Funny how first you say this should be a "free speech" opinion forum, then you turn around and say all of these other topics/threads should be closed ???
Your rant is just to argue, nothing more.
====================================================
There is no point in trying to reason with trolls, they all ways come up with a new argument, it is pointless. They are not capable if grasping "reason" and enjoy arguing.
I don't see any reason for this topic to continue, but that is up to the admins and moderators, and I don't have to follow it any more.
I am sorry to see you are so unhappy with the forum, perhaps you should look for a different one that you can enjoy more.
Or start your own, Are you capable of that ? I have my doubts.

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Re: closed thread

#17 Post by MALsPa »

I don't have anything against systemd, and I'm not looking for an operating system that doesn't have systemd, so the thread wasn't all that interesting to me. Still, I don't think the thread should have been closed. That's just my humble opinion, but I've been around here for a long time now. Seen quite a few mods come and go. Seems to me that lukas has a legitimate gripe. Not that anyone cares what I think. Is this thread gonna get locked, too?

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Re: closed thread

#18 Post by No_windows »

GarryRicketson wrote: Funny how first you say this should be a "free speech" opinion forum, then you turn around and say all of these other topics/threads should be closed ???
I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm, Garry.

For the record, I don't think that thread should have been closed. I found it to be an informative and civil thread. This thread is much more full of stupid with it's greatly exaggerated scenarios expressing one view or the other.

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Re: closed thread

#19 Post by GarryRicketson »

Is this thread gonna get locked, too?
I don't really know on that, I imagine it will continue for a while, and either
when things settle down, people will lose interest,
Not that anyone cares what I think.
Well actually they do, or we do, and that is part of the reason there is a "board" for discussing forum issues.
Seems to me that lukas has a legitimate gripe.
Well , lukas did ask a legit question, and arrochester gave a good explanation as to why , and overall I think arrochester does a very good job as a moderator, but after all said and done, the administrators have the final say. From what I have seen, and experienced here is they are all very reasonable.
If the administrators feel like a moderator is wrong, they would / could unlock the thread. But I doubt that will happen, generally the admins will back up the decisions of that the mods make, as a "spam hunter", I know they also will tell me when I am wrong, and question me about why I moved some post/topic to the spam bin, If my reasons were either a genuine mistake, or I do not have a good reason, the topic/post gets moved back to it's place. But I suppose that is another topic.

I don't like it when a small group starts "bullying" the moderator, the moderators job is not a easy task, and I do not like to see a small group start trying to make the mod look like a bad person, just because they enjoy arguments, and want to use this forum to post "free speech" rants on who knows what topics, promote and discuss other OS's, and also "bash" the Stable and future releases of Debian with systemd, there were a lot of posts in that thread that could be considered insulting to those that do choose to use the systemd versions of Debian.
So any way, that about sums it up, if members do not like the way the admins and moderators run the forum, they can make suggestions here, but after all said and done,
if they do not like the decisions, they really should look into taking the time to learn how to set up their own website and forums, where they can do what ever they want.

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Re: closed thread

#20 Post by oswaldkelso »

I stand by my first post. The tread should be unlocked. arochester needs to man up and admit it was locked because of his personal prejudice and not forum rules.
Re: DEVUAN is alive! Hurrah!

Unread postby arochester » 2015-08-19 08:43
Yeah, yeah we get the message. Devuan is alive. Hurrah???

Thread locked.

Thousands of people who are using systemd now and have no gripes about it, and thousands of developers who support it are all wrong and anti-democratic. Duh!

luddite
1. One who fears technology (or new technology, as they seem pleased with how things currently are...why can't everything just be the same?)

- http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=luddite"


The tread should be unlocked. This is Debian forums not Ubuntu if you want to behave like Ubuntu moderators please step down and go there.

If you want to quote my sig. Please do so in full because I have a G5 Powerpc running Debian on my desk. Whilst there you will see I have been here since 2005. I know what is expected of moderators and this is not it.

I make no bones about my dislike of the systemd mono-culture. I think it's horrid with many flaws. But while Debian still supports other inits. sysvinit, runit and openrc are all currently available, and if building Dragora 3 for powerpc is beyond my skills I shall be using Debian for a few years yet.

Please unlock the thread and lets move on.
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