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Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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HuangLao
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#21 Post by HuangLao »

pawRoot wrote:For newer packages

testing is not for "newer packages" it means you "intend" to be a tester, ie: bug reporter ie: help us squash these roaches before it reaches stable. Newer packages is a "bonus", first question to ask before running testing or sid should be: Will I debug problems or report them, will I be actively engaged in Debian testing/development? If you are in it for the free ride of newer packages, then you might be better off with Ubuntu, since we usually do not provide much help to users of versions that should know what they are getting themselves into.

:idea:

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pawRoot
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#22 Post by pawRoot »

I thought that Debian is a free ride ;)

I doesn't say on the webpage anything like, YOU MUST do anything if you use testing version.

Also i haven't noticed any bugs since using testing, so what do you want me to report? obviously if i see some bug i will post it here

If you don't like the idea of "free ride" maybe you should look for a job at Microsoft

P.S

As i said this topic is pointless so we all would be better if you just close it

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HuangLao
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#23 Post by HuangLao »

pawRoot wrote:I thought that Debian is a free ride ;)

I doesn't say on the webpage anything like, YOU MUST do anything if you use testing version.

Also i haven't noticed any bugs since using testing, so what do you want me to report? obviously if i see some bug i will post it here

If you don't like the idea of "free ride" maybe you should look for a job at Microsoft

P.S

As i said this topic is pointless so we all would be better if you just close it
Not freeride as in beer or even Libre, I meant needing to put in work.

regarding bugs: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/apt-listbugs
https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

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pawRoot
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#24 Post by pawRoot »

As i said, if i notice any bugs i will report them, will check the links you posted.

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phenest
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#25 Post by phenest »

Thorny wrote:In addition, people can choose to help you, or not. That choice is theirs. They also get to choose what they think will help you most.
I disagree.
It's like when you don't know how to spell a word, and someone says to look it up in a dictionary. It would be so much easier to just spell the word for them. Or when someone has a problem with Gnome, and the reply is to try KDE instead. I don't know why people think that's helpful.

Don't choose what help to give someone. Just answer the damn question. Or not, if you don't know.
Thorny wrote:Playing Internet lawyer and arguing your point like you are doing is not likely to be very productive because you risk alienating some of the most knowledgable and experienced people here who could help you.

Clearly you are frustrated, that is understandable but complaining about being badly treated (the moderators will handle any bad treatment) and continuing to write remarks scorning the forum isn't likely to help you to get help.
@pawRoot: But I do agree with this comment. If someone gives an answer, don't complain it's no good. We don't know what you're thinking, and sometimes it takes a little longer to answer the trickier questions. And sometimes it's difficult to give a concise answer when the OP isn't forthcoming with details. And sometimes we're at work or asleep and are blissfully unaware you've posted a question.
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Thorny
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#26 Post by Thorny »

phenest wrote:I disagree.
...
Don't choose what help to give someone. Just answer the damn question. Or not, if you don't know.
Well, I can play Internet lawyer with this one. Suppose someone asks, how do I install <choose a distro name>kernel or <choose some package of the incorrect version from another distro> on my Debian stable system? Using your logic if one knows how it could actually be accomplished, that's how the question should be answered. Whereas, the answer that might be of the most help to a poster like that could be, don't break Debian.

You are a knowledgable poster, I don't understand why you didn't consider that in your supposed rebuttal to my comment. I don't want to get into an argument with you, lets just disagree on this point.

The bottom line, helpers do get to choose what they think is going to be the most help. Choose wisely.

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#27 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

deadbang

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phenest
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#28 Post by phenest »

Thorny wrote:
phenest wrote:I disagree.
...
Don't choose what help to give someone. Just answer the damn question. Or not, if you don't know.
Well, I can play Internet lawyer with this one.
...
You are a knowledgable poster, I don't understand why you didn't consider that in your supposed rebuttal to my comment. I don't want to get into an argument with you, lets just disagree on this point.
Perhaps you could quote me better and show the point I made. If someone asks a question relating to Gnome, don't try to suggest KDE as a solution. And if I have a question that you don't know the answer to, don't tell me to go and research it as that's why the question is being asked in the first place (probably).

Perhaps what I should have said was answers need to be directly related to the question. But that doesn't change my original reply. Replies should answer the question being asked. Suggesting that you choose what help to give someone isn't necessarily answering their question.

I doubt you or I have given an reply that isn't what we consider helpful or useful, but you know how threads go. One minute you're talking about wi-fi connections and then someone else chimes in about systemd.

Users get a bee in their bonnet about some issue or query, and want a specific answer. I get like that sometimes and I know what sort of answer I'd appreciate.
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millpond
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Re: Moved to Offtopic, for discussion

#29 Post by millpond »

I dont have a dog in this fight, but a few observations:

Google blows chunks at dealing with Linux problems, since the search listings return so much data that is either outdated, inappropriate to version/distro, missing, or wrong.

Asking a question on a forum like this is not laziness, as much as it is educational for all the forum. Indeed I found alot about fonts from this single thread alone.

RTFM can also quite pointless when much of the instructions are in technobabble and presume a Computer Science degree. The man pages are especially dreadful, for example. And for obfuscation enshrined, try CPAN.

There is the eternal problem of Linux as a public network OS vs that of a single user system. I have a single user network here, where much of the 'security' is overkill, and counterproductive. Like preventing'users' from accessing hardware.

The real dichotomy between Win and Linux is that of corporate interests vs personal freedom. The reality is that I run Win apps on Linux, and that my Win systems are mostly Posix (Cygwin has a larger footprint than the Redmond garbage). Point here is that if someone wants the Win interface on a Gnome system, it is not a 'problem' - simply a choice which *should* be availabe to any linux user.

ESL - for many folks here English is not a primary language, and reading technical materials in it can be especially onerous. English is my *only* tongue, and after being with Linux on and off for 25 years, alot of its docs still confuse the hell out of me. Xorg, anyone???

The greybeards here can be cranky old gits, but if you can get them to answer a straight question, the answer is usually more than worth the efforts involved.

The original Linux culture was a bunch of basement dwelling propellorheads, and some of that elitism still infests the forums. However, once you understand the autistic nature of some of the key figures (the epitome being Richard Sttallman) then alot of it is not only understandable, but enjoyable.

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