So you prove a systemd based distro has compiled KDE with systemd support. According to you Devuan and all other distros that run KDE without systemd do not exist?bw123 wrote:Code: Select all
# aptitude why libpam-systemd i kde-plasma-netbook Depends udisks2 i A udisks2 Depends libpam-systemd
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Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
They seem to be up to kde 3? I could be wrong, I haven't tried it, but is that where debian would be without systemd?
https://devuan.org/os/packages/task-kde-desktop
https://devuan.org/os/packages/task-kde-desktop
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
I do not run all those distros, but in Gentoo you can build the latest KDE/Plasma without systemd, so it definitely is not hard dependency. It is merely a build-time option.
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
I made today an upgrade from debian wheezy to devuan jessie , i had some problems fixing all the stuff , because the current kernel in devuan is 3.16 and i was already on 3.18 in wheezy , and mostly because of my nvidia proprietary drivers that if i install the drivers from wheezy repository where they say that my model should work , in reality does not work at all and hangs at login screen .
Well , after messing around with the current installed distribution to make it work i had to compile from source a new kernel 3.18 to be able to install my nvidia drivers from NVIDIA website . Now it is working very good the devuan , and this is a dual boot system i have here because there is a game i like to play on my very old XP eheheh .
Devuan desktop environment is XFCE4 .
Ah , yes , and i forgot to mention that this particular wheezy distro that i updated was a pentest distro from Kali , from now on i i will have to update my tools manually from git , so i dont mess up with the OS and kali repository .
I really advice you all to check out devuan distro , is pretty good , light and without that systemd crap .
Note : i had to install kernel 3.18 from source because i have an hardware that only works after this kernel , a sound card , and i did not found a correct explanation on the web in how to compile its alsa driver in 3.16 , so this is the reason .
Well , after messing around with the current installed distribution to make it work i had to compile from source a new kernel 3.18 to be able to install my nvidia drivers from NVIDIA website . Now it is working very good the devuan , and this is a dual boot system i have here because there is a game i like to play on my very old XP eheheh .
Devuan desktop environment is XFCE4 .
Ah , yes , and i forgot to mention that this particular wheezy distro that i updated was a pentest distro from Kali , from now on i i will have to update my tools manually from git , so i dont mess up with the OS and kali repository .
I really advice you all to check out devuan distro , is pretty good , light and without that systemd crap .
Note : i had to install kernel 3.18 from source because i have an hardware that only works after this kernel , a sound card , and i did not found a correct explanation on the web in how to compile its alsa driver in 3.16 , so this is the reason .
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
That is most often the case.Segfault wrote:I do not run all those distros, but in Gentoo you can build the latest KDE/Plasma without systemd, so it definitely is not hard dependency. It is merely a build-time option.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Ok game on. Look at Slackware (which I also use), we have KDE4, Xfce 4.12, all of the latest libraries etc... and no systemd, no PAM either. You are making the common mistake of thinking a program depends on systemd because of systemd. It is up to the distro packagers/maintainers on what something will depend. You can even have Gnome on Slack through a third party repo., MATE no problem either.bw123 wrote:ok, let's play
The whole distro is full of bugs, see:Systemd is full of bugs ,
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo ... t=unstable
85 million hits say NO ONE have a good idea how anything works in linux, see:no one have a good idea how it works
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Since no one knows how it works by default, the added complexity shouldn't affect your mood this way.changed how linux by default works .
But one question I have is, where would debian be today without systemd? What desktop environments would we have?
Would we all be using fluxbox or what?
p.s. I love fluxbox, but not on my little netbook
ref: http://www.droplinegnome.org/
https://mateslackbuilds.github.io/
http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/decembe ... -plasma-5/
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
I gave up with systemd, for me is garbage and it will be for ever but I want use Debian so I decided to tolerate it.
Sadly recently it was disclosure a serious bug but the systemd team tried to hide it and this is not really nice:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ot-exploit
I believe RMS doesn't care about systemd too much because the FSF is developing its own init system, I believe it is super cool but it still in development.
https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/
Sadly recently it was disclosure a serious bug but the systemd team tried to hide it and this is not really nice:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ot-exploit
I believe RMS doesn't care about systemd too much because the FSF is developing its own init system, I believe it is super cool but it still in development.
https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Actually, it says they silently fixed it. It does not say they tried to hide it. It was fixed a year ago.Danielsan wrote:Sadly recently it was disclosure a serious bug but the systemd team tried to hide it and this is not really nice:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... ot-exploit
From that source:Danielsan wrote:I believe RMS doesn't care about systemd too much because the FSF is developing its own init system, I believe it is super cool but it still in development.
https://www.gnu.org/software/shepherd/
It doesn't say it's an init system.It provides a replacement for the service-managing capabilities of SysV-init (or any other init) with a both powerful and beautiful dependency-based system with a convenient interface.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Phenest...
"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.
"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.
Recently I read (unfortunately) the umpteenth interview to Poettering where, with the complicity of the interviewer, he was all the interview celebrating himself about systemd and other bad softwares he realized, what is it the point? He is the only one proud about systemd at the FSF they neither take it in consideration, so for they sysv-init still remain the official GNU init system and for these reason you can read: "(or any other init)"Sebastian Krahmer 2017-01-18 10:50:15 UTC
Apparently upstream failed to analyze the impact of this bug and so it was silently fixed.
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
There are many discussions on the net about systemd. They all get boring sooner or later. Lets add some spice here.
How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.
How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
I think these systemd discussions are just a waste of time, probably because we already have some specific distros. This goes pretty simple, if you don't like systemd don't use it.
I would exchange everything I know in exchange for half of what I don't.
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Why do they have to talk about it? So long as they fix it. You're making a big deal out of something that was fixed a year ago.Danielsan wrote:"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.
It sounds like you have a fixation. If you dislike it that much, go use a distro that doesn't have it.Danielsan wrote:Recently I read (unfortunately) the umpteenth interview to Poettering where ...
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Why do you want to talk sense? Are you one of them?phenest wrote:Why do they have to talk about it? So long as they fix it. You're making a big deal out of something that was fixed a year ago.Danielsan wrote:"Silently fixed" means they tried to not talk very much about a serious or an idiotic bug.
It sounds like you have a fixation. If you dislike it that much, go use a distro that doesn't have it.Danielsan wrote:Recently I read (unfortunately) the umpteenth interview to Poettering where ...
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Good idea. It is way too long ago already that a person subscribed to this forum only to slam the OS because of systemd.Segfault wrote:How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
I don't use it anymore , i changed to Devuan Jessie , witch is a fork from debian and it is very stable .I think these systemd discussions are just a waste of time, probably because we already have some specific distros. This goes pretty simple, if you don't like systemd don't use it.
I have doubts about that , however , iptables exist to avoid that , but by default no one configures iptables on their distros , witch means that the distro is accepting and sending everything without filter .How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.
The first thing that a normal user of linux should do when install his linux box is :
-Check running services at startup and disable those that he does not use : samba , ntp , kerberus , etc ...
-Then check with netstat witch ports are opened and witch services are running them .
For last : configure a set of rules in iptables to accept only connections that were started by the linux machine .
This way , every port will be drop or be closed .
To be honest , no one does this steps , but comparing linux to windows , in windows after you install it , then is better you remove it next because you will be hacked for sure and there is nothing you can do to avoid it (except unplug network cable) , lol .
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Debian Stable works great for me, so I occasionally browse the Debian forum. If I didn't use it I'd be inclined to not bother browse the Debian forums. Which begs the question if you're not using Debian/systemd why are you reading/posting here and not just focussed upon Devuan's forum(s) (wherever that/they might be)?pedropt wrote:I don't use it anymore , i changed to Devuan Jessie , witch is a fork from debian and it is very stableI think these systemd discussions are just a waste of time, probably because we already have some specific distros. This goes pretty simple, if you don't like systemd don't use it.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Probably the same pathology that makes people obsess over what the gender of those is others sleep with or what colour their skin is.ruffwoof wrote: Debian Stable works great for me, so I occasionally browse the Debian forum. If I didn't use it I'd be inclined to not bother browse the Debian forums. Which begs the question if you're not using Debian/systemd why are you reading/posting here and not just focussed upon Devuan's forum(s) (wherever that/they might be)?
Debian GNU/Linux 9 Stretch w/Openbox
Acer Aspire E5-521G
AMD A8-6410 APU
4 GB RAM
integrated AMD Mullins
dedicated AMD Hainan Radeon R5 M240 2 GB
240 GB Toshiba Q300 SSD
Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 ethernet
Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 wireless
Acer Aspire E5-521G
AMD A8-6410 APU
4 GB RAM
integrated AMD Mullins
dedicated AMD Hainan Radeon R5 M240 2 GB
240 GB Toshiba Q300 SSD
Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 ethernet
Qualcomm Atheros QCA9565 wireless
Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
I wish it was that simple. If this was true then Windows would not need anti-virus.pedropt wrote:I have doubts about that , however , iptables exist to avoid that , but by default no one configures iptables on their distros , witch means that the distro is accepting and sending everything without filter .How about this conspiracy theory: Poettering is an agent of NSA, systemd has built-in backdoors for NSA to use, Debian was forced to use systemd by NSA.
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Devuan is mostly Debian -- most of the packages come directly from the Debian repositories. However, some of the packages have been reconfigured/recompiled to remove systemd dependencies. The Debian developers may have made it difficult to use an init system other than systemd, but that doesn't mean that people who've chosen not to use systemd aren't using Debian.ruffwoof wrote: Debian Stable works great for me, so I occasionally browse the Debian forum. If I didn't use it I'd be inclined to not bother browse the Debian forums. Which begs the question if you're not using Debian/systemd why are you reading/posting here and not just focussed upon Devuan's forum(s) (wherever that/they might be)?
Phil
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Re: Biggest mistake ever made by Debian
Point being, they are using Debian to do their own thing, not unlike Mint, Ubuntu, et al in this respect. Carving systemd out of Debian does not constitute "using Debian" any more than taking the trans fat out of margarine makes it like "using butter."pcalvert wrote:...that doesn't mean that people who've chosen not to use systemd aren't using Debian.
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.