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What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
I'd like to setup a minimal Debian system and want to know exactly what packages are in the "Base System" before I start. There must be a list of this somewhere, but I've looked all over and can't find it.
There is a Debian page entitled File list of package linux-base in jessie of architecture all but it lists only eight packages (and five of these are docs and mans). I don't think this can be the full list.
I've come across this questions in a few places, but the only answer I've seen is to use apt to see what's installed on an existing system. I'd like to know about this before I do an installation (I don't have a debian system at present).
thanks
There is a Debian page entitled File list of package linux-base in jessie of architecture all but it lists only eight packages (and five of these are docs and mans). I don't think this can be the full list.
I've come across this questions in a few places, but the only answer I've seen is to use apt to see what's installed on an existing system. I'd like to know about this before I do an installation (I don't have a debian system at present).
thanks
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- stevepusser
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Some websearching leads me to believe it would be the packages listed as Essential or Required in their priorities, which can be listed with a combination of
and
Code: Select all
dpkg-query -Wf '${Package;-40}${Essential}\n' | grep yes
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dpkg-query -Wf '${Package;-40}${Priority}\n' | grep -E "required"
MX Linux packager and developer
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
The Debian Installation guide refers to a Base System. Is this the same as the "Standard System Utilities"?arochester wrote:Do you mean Standard System Utilities? http://csmojo.com/posts/what-debian-sta ... clude.html
I don't currently have a debian system, so I can't test what dpkg-query shows for the "Essential" and "Priority" packages.
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
A base system is just a command line system and it is extremely unlikely that someone asking this question will want that. You would have no Desktop (GUI). Generally speaking, you would end up with a command line prompt and not know what to do next.bdz wrote: The Debian Installation guide refers to a Base System. Is this the same as the "Standard System Utilities"?
A standard utilities install would also include standard utilities (no surprise there). They would be the ones in the link that poster arochester gave you.
However, you still would not have a Desktop, and likely still wouldn't know what to do next.
The lists that you are asking for really aren't going to be much use to someone who doesn't already understand Debian. What is the purpose of your questions, are you trying to decide how much space you need for an install? ...Or something else?
You could boot up a live Debian system and then use the commands that poster stevepusser gave you. He is probably correct about "Essential" and "Required".bdz wrote:I don't currently have a debian system, so I can't test what dpkg-query shows for the "Essential" and "Priority" packages.
Since you are apparently new at this despite having joined the forum in 2008, maybe you could state your actual goal so that we may make more specific comments that might be able to help you acheive it.
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
That is exactly what I want.Thorny wrote: A base system is just a command line system and it is extremely unlikely that someone asking this question will want that. You would have no Desktop (GUI).
Oh, I think I would. I'm currently running arch linux.Thorny wrote: Generally speaking, you would end up with a command line prompt and not know what to do next.
Default linux distributions (and I've used many, including debian), include many things I never use. While disk space is cheap, every piece of software has the potential to be a security risk and, more importantly to me, has the potential to complicate upgrades. I cannot count the number of times I've travelled through dependency hell.
I prefer to start with minimal system and add just what I need. While I've become fond of arch, I've run into quite a number of dependency problems during upgrades, more than I care for.
SO I'm trying to decide between two alternatives: (i) start with a minimal debian system and build it up, or (ii) build a a 'linux from scratch' system.
To help me decide, I was hoping to find an authoritative description of the minimal debian system that I can install. Then I can decide if it's acceptable (per my admittedly idiosyncratic standards) or too much.
Is it possible that no such description exists?
regards to all
- stevepusser
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
I get for the essential packages:
And for the additonal non-duplicate required ones:
I think the second command in fact includes all the packages produced by the first one, so only the second would be needed.
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[quote]base-files yes
base-passwd yes
bash yes
bsdutils yes
coreutils yes
dash yes
debianutils yes
diffutils yes
dpkg yes
e2fsprogs yes
findutils yes
grep yes
gzip yes
hostname yes
init yes
libc-bin yes
login yes
mount yes
ncurses-base yes
ncurses-bin yes
perl-base yes
sed yes
sysvinit-utils yes
tar yes
util-linux yes[/quote]
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cli-shell-utils required
debconf required
debconf-i18n required
e2fslibs required
gcc-4.9-base required
initscripts required
libacl1 required
libattr1 required
libblkid1 required
libc6 required
libcomerr2 required
libgcc1 required
liblocale-gettext-perl required
liblzma5 required
libmount1 required
libncurses5 required
libpam-modules required
libpam-modules-bin required
libpam-runtime required
libpam0g required
libpcre3 required
libselinux1 required
libsepol1 required
libsmartcols1 required
libss2 required
libtext-charwidth-perl required
libtext-iconv-perl required
libtext-wrapi18n-perl required
libtinfo5 required
libuuid1 required
libuuid1 required
login required
lsb-base required
mawk required
passwd required
sensible-utils required
startpar required
sysv-rc required
tzdata required
xz-utils required
zlib1g required
Last edited by stevepusser on 2017-02-10 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
MX Linux packager and developer
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
A description of a "base system" is here: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-polic ... .html#s3.7 But that doesn't tell you which packages are IN a "base system". And in my opinion, it's not really clear what they mean by "base system".
However, somewhere above you mentioned you want a non-gui, command-line shell system. That is easily accomplished by... in the Debian installation program, when it asks you to pick a "desktop", simply don't choose a desktop and what you end up with is a non-gui, CLI-only system. (Maybe that's a "base system". Maybe not.)
However, somewhere above you mentioned you want a non-gui, command-line shell system. That is easily accomplished by... in the Debian installation program, when it asks you to pick a "desktop", simply don't choose a desktop and what you end up with is a non-gui, CLI-only system. (Maybe that's a "base system". Maybe not.)
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Well, yes--it's also what pbuilder sets up as a base package build platform in the openSUSE Build System for a Debian package, for example, before adding build-essential as a given, then adding whatever else build-depends are listed in debian/control.tynman wrote:A description of a "base system" is here: https://www.debian.org/doc/debian-polic ... .html#s3.7 But that doesn't tell you which packages are IN a "base system". And in my opinion, it's not really clear what they mean by "base system".
However, somewhere above you mentioned you want a non-gui, command-line shell system. That is easily accomplished by... in the Debian installation program, when it asks you to pick a "desktop", simply don't choose a desktop and what you end up with is a non-gui, CLI-only system. (Maybe that's a "base system". Maybe not.)
MX Linux packager and developer
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Thanks for the lists. Seeing them is very helpful. I need to go through them, but at first glance, they look pretty compact.stevepusser wrote:I get for the essential packages:
...
That's interesting.Well, yes--it's also what pbuilder sets up as a base package build platform in the openSUSE Build System for a Debian package, for example, before adding build-essential as a given, then adding whatever else build-depends are listed in debian/control.
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Debian Administrator's handbook link Section 4.2.14, of course.The Debian Administrators handbook wrote:4.2.14. Installing the Base System
This step, which doesn't require any user interaction, installs the Debian “base system” packages. This includes the dpkg and apt tools, which manage Debian packages, as well as the utilities necessary to boot the system and start using it.
Pretty general, but clear.
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Debootstrap also installs a minimal base system without any logins. To set up the root account you will need to chroot into the new installation and use passwd. /etc/fstab, /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/network/interfaces are not automatically created.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
The worst infection of all, is a false sense of security!
It is hard to get away from CLI tools.
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
I'm another who finds the documentation and installer a little short on information. The installer doesn't say "base system" or the like, it asks what desktop you want and lists Debian Desktop Environment first, already checked, and then the usual suspects, though not all of them...Gnome, KDE, LXDE...but not Lxqt, which is what I was after. I assumed that "Debian Desktop Environment" meant lower-level packages, so did an installation with that and that only...and got Gnome! I tried reinstalling and _unchecked_ DDE, and that got me a functioning, bare-bones, no-GUI system. Unfortunately, installing lxqt-core, lxqt and task-lxqt-desktop then failed...libopus0 was not in the repos for stretch, only sid.
But the failure, since rectified, isn't the point...it is the unhelpful use of terms like base system and standard utilities and Debian DE, nowhere defined, that I (and some of you, too) are taking issue with, I guess. I'm a new Debian user, mostly Fedora and Arch and long ago Gentoo...who should I turn to to talk about some of these things?
thanks and regards...
But the failure, since rectified, isn't the point...it is the unhelpful use of terms like base system and standard utilities and Debian DE, nowhere defined, that I (and some of you, too) are taking issue with, I guess. I'm a new Debian user, mostly Fedora and Arch and long ago Gentoo...who should I turn to to talk about some of these things?
thanks and regards...
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
I am somewhat surprised that someone with your experience of various GNU/Linux distros would have questions like this.prairiedad wrote: I'm a new Debian user, mostly Fedora and Arch and long ago Gentoo...who should I turn to to talk about some of these things?
Surely you must have learned how to read documentation and use a search engine. In addition, that you would ask in a support forum a question like who to talk to about the issues you have identified. Haven't you encountered bug reports in your career?
I wonder what forums you have been participating in where digging up a month old thread is considered good form.
Good luck with Debian now that you have chosen to use it. By the way, people who don't yet understand Debian are encouraged to use the stable branch, not testing or sid. (That's in the documentation.)
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Thorny, can you be any more of an arrogant ass? Jeez... people ask questions to learn.
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Sure, I could but I choose not to.Horizon_Brave wrote:Thorny, can you be any more of an arrogant ass? Jeez... people ask questions to learn.
You are correct in that some people ask questions to learn, however, some do not.
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
Not just an arrogant ass, but one who doesn't read the posts he flames very carefully. What I said was (emphasis added):Thorny wrote:Sure, I could but I choose not to.Horizon_Brave wrote:Thorny, can you be any more of an arrogant ass? Jeez... people ask questions to learn.
You are correct in that some people ask questions to learn, however, some do not.
This has nothing to do with my knowledge of how Linux works (I am not new at Linux at all, just new at Debian and it's somewhat poorly written installer) it is only a question about whom to contact (if not via the forums) to suggest simple changes in the wording of the installer that would obviate the need for this entire, largely unedifying, thread. If the installer asked: "What desktop would you like to install? If you leave Debian Desktop Environment checked, you will receive Gnome. You may also add one or more other DEs, listed below, or uncheck all boxes to receive a "bare-bones" system consisting of only..." X, or whatever is in, say, Arch after pacstrap.But the failure, since rectified, isn't the point...it is the unhelpful use of terms like "base system" and "standard utilities" and "Debian DE," nowhere defined, that I (and some of you, too) are taking issue with, I guess. I'm a new Debian user, mostly Fedora and Arch and long ago Gentoo...who should I turn to to talk about some of these things?
The whole point of my post was to suggest that the installer's text is mediocre, and that the documentation is inconsistent, as the using of Google (which I do always, whatever Thorny may think) directed me to this very thread, wherein various users had wholly different ideas about what the installer does or doesn't install!
So, to recapitulate, whom would I contact to make suggestions about changing the text of the installer...full stop.
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Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
See https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ & https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reportingprairiedad wrote:whom would I contact to make suggestions about changing the text of the installer
deadbang
Re: What, exactly, is in the "Base System"?
You could always file a WISHLIST bug against the installer. But don't get your hopes up; historically, the installer team is notoriously resistant to just about any/all UX suggestions.prairiedad wrote:So, to recapitulate, whom would I contact to make suggestions about changing the text of the installer...full stop.
P.S. (to both you and @Horizon_Brave): Picking unnecessary fights with long-standing contributors is probably not in your best interests.