What's the status of Pentium and Stretch?

Message

technoan · #1 Post by **technoan** » 2017-04-02 01:39

Read somewhere that Debian has ceased to support Pentium 4 since May 2016, for kernel version 4.3 onwards.

But there is a pentium-builder, the package which forces pentium optimized compilation. It replaces gcc, cc, and g++ with scripts that build pentium optimized code.

I am running a Pentium 4 machine with Stretch with kernel
Linux debian2 4.9.0-1-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.9.6-3 (2017-01-28) i686 GNU/Linux

No problem. Can surf web with a wired broadband or wireless 4g broadband.

Some things are slower than when I was using Jessie though.
1. browser takes longer to open up
2. dolphin files take longer to open up

GarryRicketson · #2 Post by **GarryRicketson** » 2017-04-02 02:15

This is what it says here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00001.html

There is more here, if one does a search :
What's the status of Pentium and Stretch?

pendrachken · #3 Post by **pendrachken** » 2017-04-02 02:45

technoan wrote:Read somewhere that Debian has ceased to support Pentium 4 since May 2016, for kernel version 4.3 onwards.

But there is a pentium-builder, the package which forces pentium optimized compilation. It replaces gcc, cc, and g++ with scripts that build pentium optimized code.

I am running a Pentium 4 machine with Stretch with kernel
Linux debian2 4.9.0-1-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.9.6-3 (2017-01-28) i686 GNU/Linux

No problem. Can surf web with a wired broadband or wireless 4g broadband.

Some things are slower than when I was using Jessie though.
1. browser takes longer to open up
2. dolphin files take longer to open up

Pentium4 is a 686 processor. As far as I know the only 586 and lower processors with Pentium in their name that are now unsupported are the Original Pentium and the Pentium with MMX, both of which were ~133MHz CPUs.

Pentium 2/3/4 should all be 686 CPUs and supported by 32bit GCC.

technoan · #4 Post by **technoan** » 2017-04-02 05:36

Garry Ricketson,

I thought I had given you a good reply but it seems it was lost in the system. I will not let it pass.

Why must you be so condescending? If you have read my mail carefully, you would know that I have searched and read up on the subject. I have been to areas you have not even mentioned such as chat groups. Different sources give different answers which may be contradictory or out of date.

It makes me fume when you read what that idiot Absent Minded said:
"you should however realize that our members and staff are ALL volunteer people just like you. No one gets paid to be here and help. "

This is rubbish. Not only a special few here can provide answers and help for others. Anyone who participate in the forum can do that, for free too. Some may be ignorant in some areas but an expert in others. I can safely say that I can help to answer many of the questions here too.

My advice to you. If you don't want to answer a question, just ignore it.

You can suggest that I be banned from this forum. I don't give a damn. With ass like you around, it is trash ground.

Thorny · #5 Post by **Thorny** » 2017-04-02 12:07

technoan wrote: I thought I had given you a good reply but it seems it was lost in the system. I will not let it pass.

There haven't been any others mentioning posts being "lost in the system", maybe you made a mistake.

Garry gave you links to what you could have read for answers. Your OP didn't mentioned what you had already found out or that you thought you'd seen conflicting answers. Certainly there is no way we could have known you'd been on IRC.

It looks like you read the links in Garry's signature too but didn't understand that those weren't directed specifically at you. It just what we consider good advice, and especially for people new here.

By the way, calling a forum admin an idiot isn't likely to endear you to members here or increase the quality of answers to your questions. Most of the members here don't think Absent Minded's post is "rubbish".

If, in your opinion, you think this forum to be "trash ground", then the best advice is to find one that suits you. It's that simple. Why frequent some place that makes you angry.

bw123 · #6 Post by **bw123** » 2017-04-02 14:22

Well, it seems that 'pentium' is a brand of processors, so I would say it is supported for P6 and later?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium

Read somewhere that Debian has ceased to support Pentium 4
<snip>
I am running a Pentium 4 machine
<snip>
No problem.

Seems like you have proved that not everything you read is true?

Some things are slower than when I was using Jessie though.
1. browser takes longer to open up
2. dolphin files take longer to open up

This seems to happen to me with every OS upgrade over the last 25 years.

dasein · #7 Post by **dasein** » 2017-04-02 20:51

technoan wrote:Read somewhere that Debian has ceased to support Pentium 4...

You would be wise to either (a) develop a more skeptical attitude towards "somewhere" and/or (b) learn how to distinguish among members of the Pentium processor family. What was dropped was support for 586-class chips, which includes only the earliest releases of Pentium-branded processors, circa mid-1990s. Anything that's branded as a Pentium with a number behind it is a 686-class chip.

technoan wrote:Some things are slower than when I was using Jessie though.

Does it truly surprise you that really old hardware has increasing trouble keeping up with the demands of modern apps? (That CPU was originally released when Netscape was the cutting-edge in Web browser technology.)

As regards your perception of the forums, the answer is simple: show up and start answering questions (correctly, please). Show folks here how you think it ought to be done. Otherwise, all you're doing is complaining for its own sake.

bw123 · #8 Post by **bw123** » 2017-04-02 22:20

Does it truly surprise you that really old hardware has increasing trouble keeping up with the demands of modern apps?

To be a counterbalance, i believe the P4 is a really good chip, and though it's getting old, I hope that linux support lasts a good while longer. I still have a couple of P4 machines that run wheezy and they have been pretty near flawless, though they don't use the internet at all. I might try sometime to install a newer debian on them, but really don't see the need.

I think my older P4 machines are probably on par with this puny N450 Atom in this little netbook I am using, and it has issues with the 4.9 backport kernel, and also with stretch.

I think it's a fair question to ask, "what is the status for my cpu on stretch," but I hate to take up for someone who slammed absentminded, and called him an idiot, because that guy was so nice to people it makes you sick. I hope the OP offers an apology after reading many of his (absentminded) other posts, absentminded is surely no idiot.

...and while I'm on the soapbox...

I saw this link on debian.org the other day, I don't know how long it has been there but I don't recall ever reading this?
https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct

It's pretty interesting, and I have thought about the mini flame wars I've seen on here the last few months, and wondered, do you guys go for this 'community' thing or what?

technoan · #9 Post by **technoan** » 2017-04-03 01:39

Hi folks,

Thanks for all the replies. Some have provided precise answers which I was not able to get from passive searches. This brings out an important point. A forum is also a search tool. More importantly, it is an interactive and more sociable search tool. You search for answers by engaging in interactive communications with other people. In fact, during passive search, links to forums are also thrown up. Sad to say, it is often Ubuntu's and seldom Debian's.

I find it illogical that someone set up a forum and then discourage participations. You want to make it an exclusive, expert forum? Yet you have a Beginners section. It would be better to welcome mass participation. If the participation is massive enough, you could attract the interest of advertisers and you would not work for free then.

Anyway, thanks for not flaming me until I turned charcoal.

phenest · #10 Post by **phenest** » 2017-04-03 17:02

technoan wrote:I am running a Pentium 4 machine

What P4 do you have? Mine is a 3.6GHz with HT and 64bit. Runs Stretch amd64 and Windows 10 x86 at reasonable speeds with no issues. But then mine is the last in the line of P4's and were quite powerful for their day and maybe even by today's standards.

dasein · #11 Post by **dasein** » 2017-04-03 17:39

bw123 wrote:i believe the P4 is a really good chip...

I never meant to suggest otherwise. I was only trying to point out that it's unreasonable to expect it to handle today's increasingly bloat-ridden applications without a noticeable slowdown (particularly on the earliest P4 chips).

bw123 wrote:I hope that linux support lasts a good while longer.

Generally speaking, Linux is very close to spot-on in terms of retiring support for older microarchitectures, IMO. The 585-class chips are now ~20 year old technology, and really don't justify the effort required to support them. But the 686-class architecture is still present in several subsequent generations of CPUs. It'd be surprising if support went away anytime soon.

dasein · #12 Post by **dasein** » 2017-04-03 17:54

technoan wrote:A forum is also a search tool.

Only if one believes that others' time is less valuable than one's own.

technoan wrote:I find it illogical that someone set up a forum and then discourage participations.

I'll say it again: show up and "be the change you want to see." Or start your own forum and run it according to your superior sensibilities. Otherwise, you're just whining.

technoan wrote:If the participation is massive enough, you could attract the interest of advertisers.

bw123 · #13 Post by **bw123** » 2017-04-04 22:25

What I see is a thread that says, "I wanted information about debian/gnu/linux pentium processor support,"

"BUT I ran into a personality conflict, of my own making." which derailed my thread.

and while I understand because it happens to me a LOT, I still think that Garry, and Absent Minded are at least due some
credibility points? I mean sheesh, Garry offered the first response to a pretty lame question that says debian doesn't support pentium 4 processors, when the OP says IN THE POST that he is running stretch on a pentum 4?

Is this silly or what? Is the thread SOLVED? please mark it so, ty.

GarryRicketson · #14 Post by **GarryRicketson** » 2017-04-04 23:12

technoan wrote:Read somewhere that Debian has ceased to support Pentium 4 since May 2016, for kernel version 4.3 onwards.

But there is a pentium-builder, the package which forces pentium optimized compilation. It replaces gcc, cc, and g++ with scripts that build pentium optimized code.

I am running a Pentium 4 machine with Stretch with kernel
Linux debian2 4.9.0-1-686-pae #1 SMP Debian 4.9.6-3 (2017-01-28) i686 GNU/Linux

No problem. Can surf web with a wired broadband or wireless 4g broadband.

Some things are slower than when I was using Jessie though.
1. browser takes longer to open up
2. dolphin files take longer to open up

============Then my response==========

Re: What's the status of Pentium and Stretch?

Post by GarryRicketson » 2017-04-01 20:15
This is what it says here:
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00001.html

There is more here, if one does a search :
What's the status of Pentium and Stretch?

==== Then I see this response, after the post by pendrachken, which is a much better answer then mine ====
However I was really surprised to see this very hostile , rude and hateful reply:

Re: What's the status of Pentium and Stretch?

Post by technoan » 2017-04-01 23:36
Garry Ricketson,

I thought I had given you a good reply but it seems it was lost in the system. I will not let it pass.

Why must you be so condescending? If you have read my mail carefully, you would know that I have searched and read up on the subject. I have been to areas you have not even mentioned such as chat groups. Different sources give different answers which may be contradictory or out of date.

It makes me fume when you read what that idiot Absent Minded said:
"you should however realize that our members and staff are ALL volunteer people just like you. No one gets paid to be here and help. "
This is rubbish. Not only a special few here can provide answers and help for others. Anyone who participate in the forum can do that, for free too. Some may be ignorant in some areas but an expert in others. I can safely say that I can help to answer many of the questions here too.

My advice to you. If you don't want to answer a question, just ignore it.

You can suggest that I be banned from this forum. I don't give a damn. With ass like you around, it is trash ground.

I certainly did not intend to be "condescending", and really do not see anything I said that is condescending, nor rude, I did not call this person any names, etc,..
I simply showed a link, if this person looked at it, it says about the older Pentium
chips, but nothing about the newer ones,.. I just said, "that is what it says here",..
I did edit, and change that to this,..if by using the word "that" instead of this, was
the problem, my apology, I had no intention of being condescending.
My statement here:

There is more here, if one does a search :
What's the status of Pentium and Stretch?

Is nothing more nor less then a statement, and it is a true statement, if one does a search,...using those keywords there are more results.
I did not say the OP had not done any searches, nor say anything that I know of
that would offend or anger a normal person.
How ever, I will apologize any way, if something I said was so offensive to warrant calling me a ass, I do apologize for saying it , in other words I am sorry I responded to the OP's post. I had no way of knowing they are not normal, and would get offended over nothing, and fly off the handle. I do understand, perhaps the OP has had some head injury, or some kind of disability that makes
them react abnormal, but I had no way of knowing they needed "special" attention, so I apologize again.
When I responded to the post I had no intention of causing any one harm.
As far as the threat goes, " I will not let it pass."...what ever,...I am not really
worried about it,...
On this:

technoan: You can suggest that I be banned from this forum. I don't give a damn. With ass like you around, it is trash ground.

The administration here do not ban somebody, just because I, or anyone else suggest it.
They do ban people on some very rare occasions, when some body just does not seem to learn, and continuously harasses other forum members, or staff, yes eventually the person gets banned, by their own doing.

I am sorry if the OP perhaps was banned before, here or somewhere else,or something like that, but I will be clear, if that is the case, it had nothing to do with me suggesting anything, it was because of the persons actions, and the administration /moderators got tired of the repeated problems.
The statement about "suggest that I be banned" kind of makes me think the
OP know perfectly well, bad behaviour get people banned, and they know the attack on me and absentminded is not only uncalled for, but in very bad taste.
We are pretty forgiving here, but there are limits.

Like Thorny says, and calling members a ass, or other names and saying a admin is a idiot, etc, these are things that could get a person banned.

Thorny>By the way, calling a forum admin an idiot isn't likely to endear you to members here or increase the quality of answers to your questions. Most of the members here don't think Absent Minded's post is "rubbish".

Jumping into the middle of a topic, and making a comment like "This person is a ass, their posts make me puke", and other types of insults, is not only totally off topic, and uncalled for, poor behaviour, but will eventually get a person banned.

The OP is new, username, new registraion, etc,...so far the OP has not started doing that, except in this one post, since it is just the first post I realize maybe they just don't know better, or something , so any way, now I know not to respond to this persons posts in the future.
When I replied to the OP's first post, I had no clue they would fly off the handle, like this, now that I do know the OP is like this, I will be sure not to reply to any future posts.

technoan>>My advice to you. If you don't want to answer a question, just ignore it.

Thank you for the advice, but it was not needed. If I do not want to answer a question, I don't, and again, I apologize for responding to yours, it won't happen again.

I just click YES
BYE
==edited==
Mostly just fixing some spelling mistakes
Oh, and in the future, and this applies to anybody,..
If and when anyone has a complaint,or does not like somebody else's post,
PLEASE use the report button, instead of de-railing the topic,and starting a
flame war, or calling people names, etc,.. if there is a genuine reason to remove
the post, or warn the poster, etc. the forum admins or a mod will take care of it.
That is what the report button is for, it is not just for spam,..it is the little red triangle with the ! in it, in case some people have never noticed it.

Qwerty Dragon · #15 Post by **Qwerty Dragon** » 2017-06-18 06:36

technoan wrote:I am running a Pentium 4 machine with Stretch...

Minimum CPU features for the i386 architecture is 686-class in the stretch release cycle.

On page https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00001.html it confused me also the part about:
"[1] The following processors, supported in jessie, are now unspported:
* Intel Pentium, Pentium with MMX"

Seemed to imply all Pentiums, but the emphasis is to be placed on is it i686 or not.

Sunday, June 18 2017, and just installed Debian Stretch on Lenovo T43 with Pentium M just fine.

To print system information

Code: Select all

uname -a

or

Code: Select all

uname -m