What laptop to buy?

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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2017-06-03 21:00

from the quote: On this forum much more often, you get answers like search on the internet or do some reading. I find that wrong. You cannot expect people to read a lot.


Actually on this forum more often one does get a lot of step by step, help, and "hand holding".
Quite often there are answers or suggestion to try searching, especially when
the solution or answer often is readily available in the search results.
"You can not expect people to read a lot ",... So why did hthi post such a long post ?
On many problems, it is necessary to write a lot of technical details, but what is the point if the person refuses to read, even a little. Which leads to why "hthi"
ended up on my ignore list, it became obvious this person does not bother to read anything when people try to help them, also does absolutely nothing as far as searching.

How can any one expect to learn how to do something , without reading the instructions ?
"What we expect you have already Done"

Before doing anything, read the Debian documentation:
Debian Documentation
How to ask the smart way
Debian Foro Español
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby dasein » 2017-06-03 21:23

orythem27 wrote:Ususally it's not enough to determine the exact model of a laptop's major components by its model number, e.g. Dell 7720. The manufacturer might shift between different parts in different batches... .

Answers this insightful are rare, so I wanted to offer a huge +1 to orythem27's answer.

Questions like "Is my FooMatic Model 55 computer compatible with <whatever>?" can't possibly yield a high-quality answer, because manufacturers often treat low-level piece-parts as interchangeable. This is yet another instance where the plural of anecdote is not data.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby phenest » 2017-06-04 08:31

To further dasein's and orythem27's answers, there can be variations on a single model simply due to the original purchaser selecting different available components because of affordability and/or needs.
NEC Spirit 550 P4 3.8GHz HT - 2GB RAM - nVidia 7600GT - Pioneer BDR-209DBK
ASUS Sabertooth P67 i7 3770K - 32GB RAM - 2x nVidia 660GTX SLI'd
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby alan stone » 2017-06-04 16:19

Another option is to contact a local Linux User Group (see section 6 - External links to find a LUG in your area) and submit your questions.

Once you've bought a laptop, ask them to help you install the Linux distribution of your choice or to install it for you.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby d3viant » 2017-06-04 18:24

ruffwoof wrote:Consider suppliers

For instance Chinese hardware such as Lenova can contain factory installed firmware based virus (lower prices can be a incentive to spread such virus).

As does Intel: https://stallman.org/intel.html
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby HuangLao » 2017-06-05 20:12

ruffwoof wrote:Consider suppliers

For instance Chinese hardware such as Lenova can contain factory installed firmware based virus (lower prices can be a incentive to spread such virus).



such drivel .... If you think that China or Russia (or fill in the blank country) are the only ones doing this then you might just use Windows. USA/EU has been doing this for many many years....
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby alan stone » 2017-06-06 12:01

ruffwoof wrote:Consider suppliers

For instance Chinese hardware such as Lenova can contain factory installed firmware based virus (lower prices can be a incentive to spread such virus).

Naughty, naughty Chinese: How the CIA has hopelessly compromised Apple hardware. :roll:
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby n_hologram » 2017-06-06 17:12

ruffwoof wrote:Consider suppliers

For instance Chinese hardware such as Lenova can contain factory installed firmware based virus (lower prices can be a incentive to spread such virus).

That's ironic since the FSF has endorsed a Lenovo laptop (albeit refurbished and customized) for their libreboot campaign. (inb4 "old news")
https://shop.libiquity.com/product/taurinus-x200
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby prahladyeri » 2017-06-17 17:59

arochester wrote: In Debian to get wifi to work you need to first, edit the sources list and second, add the firmware (driver).


Does it really happen in all cases? Because I've installed debian on my laptop in the past and wifi usually worked out of the box.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby 4D696B65 » 2017-06-17 18:01

prahladyeri wrote:
arochester wrote: In Debian to get wifi to work you need to first, edit the sources list and second, add the firmware (driver).


Does it really happen in all cases? Because I've installed debian on my laptop in the past and wifi usually worked out of the box.

Atheros chips that use the ath9k driver do not need firmware therefore works out of the box.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby hthi » 2017-08-14 20:32

The author likely cannot read what I am writing.

Actually on this forum more often one does get a lot of step by step, help, and "hand holding".
Quite often there are answers or suggestion to try searching, especially when
the solution or answer often is readily available in the search results.


Correct.

"You can not expect people to read a lot "


It should have said “search and read a lot before asking on this debian forum”.

On many problems, it is necessary to write a lot of technical details, but what is the point if the person refuses to read, even a little. Which leads to why "hthi"
ended up on my ignore list, it became obvious this person does not bother to read anything when people try to help them, also does absolutely nothing as far as searching.


The author makes rude and undocumented claims. Including I do not read answers given on this forum. Rubbish. I do search before asking.
The author has no knowledge about how often I get answers before I get to
contact this forum.
Frequently when searching I find answers, I will not use before asking on this forum. Because I want this forum to verify their validity. I want to avoid damaging my system because
I may not be able to get it working again.
What I have written here, I have written before. Probably to the same person.

Debian forum has a beginners questions box. Telling me, people with little knowledge
and prowess are invited to ask questions. Harsh answers and trolling answers
like the google search link are counter productive. Why do you make them? If you
think the questioners questions are to simple or he does not bother to search for
himself, then do not answer at all.
Maybe this forum wants to set standards for who can be a
questioner. I think that is doing debian and free software a disfavor.
I do believe you cannot expect a questioner to spend long time finding an answer
before asking on this forum. Every questioner must for himself decide how much
of an effort he wants to make before he asks a question on this forum. Persons
who are capable of answering decide how much effort they spend
answering.
The key point is not to act dismissively to people.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby Thorny » 2017-08-14 21:27

hthi wrote:Debian forum has a beginners questions box. Telling me, people with little knowledge
and prowess are invited to ask questions. Harsh answers and trolling answers
like the google search link are counter productive. Why do you make them? If you
think the questioners questions are to simple or he does not bother to search for
himself, then do not answer at all.
Maybe this forum wants to set standards for who can be a
questioner. I think that is doing debian and free software a disfavor.
I do believe you cannot expect a questioner to spend long time finding an answer
before asking on this forum. Every questioner must for himself decide how much
of an effort he wants to make before he asks a question on this forum. Persons
who are capable of answering decide how much effort they spend
answering.
The key point is not to act dismissively to people.

Perhaps the key point is something different than what you think.

Consider this post from a Forum Administrator, it's a sticky at the top of the beginners forum that you mention. The administrator details "What we expect you have already done." viewtopic.php?f=30&t=47078
Once you've read and understood that you may have more of a idea of why people here have the expectations they do.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby Gaius » 2017-09-11 00:30

dasein wrote:This is yet another instance where the plural of anecdote is not data.

Image

dasein needs a permit for some of his comments, very entertaining :D
If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby hthi » 2017-09-20 18:59

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=47078

That you have searched the Man pages available on your topic.

Seldom am I able to get to answers, reading what the man says.
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Re: What laptop to buy?

Postby thehand » 2017-09-27 17:09

I have figured out (through trial and error) how to get Debian to work with everything but Bluetooth mice on the Dell Precision Workstation 7710 (the previous model to the 7720), which I feel is really a problem with the Linux bluetooth driver configuration of my laptop, and not of the mouse. This is the latest version, Debian Stretch, and the stock kernel can work (if you decide to purchase it from Dell directly I can make a full howto to get Debian Stretch XFCE running in UEFI), but some minor things like USB wake support don't work. If you like this laptop (I love how powerful workstations can be), check out http://www.emperorlinux.com/mfgr/dell/rhino/ , which is Debian Jessie fully configured with Linux (with a custom kernel for maximum battery life!). I had this configured with Ubuntu 14.04 instead of Windows, but the drivers for the standard graphics supplied from Dell for Ubuntu 14.04 are the old one (FGLRX) from AMD before they scrapped their Linux drivers and moved on to AMDGPU PRO (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMDGPU-SI-Experimental-Code). The W5170M (https://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2705/firepro-w5170m) (which is the standard graphics option (do not select it if you want Linux support) is GCN 1.0, and the AMDGPU PRO drivers support GCN 1.2 and later, which the second option, W7170M, is higher than GCN 1.2.

So, if you pick a laptop, MAKE SURE you do your research! First look at the processor and graphics card (and if you are doing heavy work you need a dual fan system (call and find out if you can't see it a teardown or the support manual from Dell), and then find out as much as you can about every component in the laptop. If you aren't sure then you have a lot of reading to do, and you aren't done reading until you are satisfied that it will work. Use YouTube, use forums, use mailing lists, post here...looking at systems that are sold with a supported version of Linux is a good starting point.
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