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Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

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steve_v
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#21 Post by steve_v »

makh wrote:1. I dont pretty much understand why do we have so many alternates to nautilus. Maximum 3 developed for standard DEs should have been enough.
2. Why there are more than a dozen desktop environments, each trying to give icons and interface, for the very same purpose. Again Cinnamon/Xfce, KDE and Gnome were more than enough.
3. I like Kolourpaint more than others, personally. But still there may be some lags in it, but having gpaint, and all others for same single task.
4. So many panel applications/docks...
5. Cd/Dvd Burning: k3b is my choice, but there are so many others, for each desktop!
6. Audio/Music players, more than many, competing each other
This thread appears to be based on the premise that the purpose of software is to make $user happy. I disagree.
IME a great many open source hackers build the things that they want, or code simply for the joy of it.

Someone starts writing music player #187 because they feel like writing a music player, because it's fun, and because it's an opportunity to make it just how they like it. If others like it too, it might become another choice in the Debian repos.
What's the problem here? Why should unpaid hackers work on improving the things you want instead?

There's no polished alternative to AutoCAD because there are not enough people keen to work on one in their free time, feel free to improve the situation by contributing to, say, FreeCAD.
If you want to write a new autocad clone, go right ahead. If you want to herd everybody else into working on your pet want, go fish.

Or just continue whingeing about all that not-perfect free stuff you're using, and how people aren't working hard / fast / efficient enough making it for you.
Geez, these backseat developers sure are demanding. :roll:
Besides, I don't like your picks for the projects everyone should be working on, what makes your favourite applications more deserving than mine?

Personally, I think it's awesome that there is so much free code to choose from, and even more awesome that most of it is free so I can tweak it however I like.
Diversity is neat, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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makh
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#22 Post by makh »

Hi

@oswaldkelso:
+1 for xfce, that recalls gnome2, but a bit differently.
Nice to hear your thoughts, but I disagree to you, mostly.
ticojohn wrote:Diversity is great. Without it we would be nothing more than a bunch of workers in a hive.
oswaldkelso wrote:
makh wrote:Hi
...
I am not against diversity... but a proper desktop, just like a full proper "Debian Minimal Install". Next you may add anything to use.

@GarryRicketson:
Sir! I am not talking of WMs. Only the "desktops". Routinely, due to Virtualbox, I myself run OB.

@ Steve:
IME a great many open source hackers build the things that they want, or code simply for the joy of it.
> Then theres no need to load to Debian repo or git. If one wants something for others, then it should have some functionality, to benefit other. AKA, it should be usable for Desktop.
Besides, I don't like your picks for the projects everyone should be working on, what makes your favourite applications more deserving than mine?
> It is a general talk on a default desktop of scheming Debian/Linux Distro.
Diversity is neat, I wouldn't have it any other way.
> I agree to it.


Most people to whom I showed Cinnamon, really appreciated the design. But it is heavy, atleast on my system versus xfce.

Thankyou
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#23 Post by Innovate »

makh wrote: Did you really read my first post or are the usual troll?

Windows & MacOS do not stop you from installing anything you want to. I meant that the base system is small... this makes their Desktops more practical for average users, for many tasks.
Look who's talking, and yet you didn't even answer what I ask
If I didn't read your first post I'd randomly type 1+1=2, posting random meme on your thread & leave long ago.

Before think anyone troll, think again why do I bother to trouble myself reply you here for?
what do I gain from you to do that way? I don't have such abilities to troll anyone.
But I can hit the nail on anyone's head. Especially contradiction speech.

Why so many DE? simple,
- Do you like single DE that the choice that you hate?
See? Unity you don't add to the list because you hate it & don't forget most ppl start with Ubuntu they don't recognize Debian.
- Not everyone like the same thing. We're humans not a cloning.
Sample you like Cinnamon I extremely hate it as Unity the start menu is too big ate half of 18.5 screen extremely annoying.
The more I'm stay the more I'm pissed annoying. I'd rather go KDE or Xfce. Did you even aware why Zorin never pick Cinnamon?

If you want to blame why so many DE, so many distro? <<<blame those silly distro hoppers over there.
Don't you realize? they're the true culprit that cause you dizzy. Install & format reviews every distro everydays
of course this would pissed win users and rant why so many distro. Distrhopper themselves they never realize.
If they focus on main distro then nobody would rant about this from the beginning.
If you already make your mind with any OS you don't even need to wonder why so many at all.


*Sigh* Seems some other fool western speaker over there take an analogy
& if...then... conjuction delusion for strawman argument from reading logic books too much.
Perhaps he's forgot "Analogy" exist in dictionary. Like hell if...then... conjuction can avoid to speak.
Do you think I don't aware some trolls are picking my weakness "if...then...+Analogy speech" for strawman argument?
Last edited by Innovate on 2018-01-12 11:25, edited 2 times in total.

Wheelerof4te
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#24 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Innovate wrote:*Sigh* Seems some other fool western speaker over there take an analogy & if...then... conjuction for strawman argument from reading logic books too much. Perhaps he's forgot "Analogy" exist in dictionary. Like hell if...then... conjuction can avoid to speak.Do you think I don't aware some trolls are picking my weakness "if...then...+Analogy speech" for strawman argument?
EDIT: Forget about the first part, it was about bester69. Sigh, can you put the quote brackets next time, so that it can't be glossed over?
/EDIT
Is this about me?
First, I don't consider myself to be a westerner. Second, I can hardly understand you, can you be more clear with what you're saying, you sound like a bot.
Third, logic books=books about logical thinking. And no, I don't read many books about logical thinking. Logic is something obviuos, it's meant to be understood, not read about.
Innovate wrote:If you want to blame why so many DE, so many distro? <<<blame those silly distro hoppers over there.Don't you realize? they're the true culprit that cause you dizzy. Install & format reviews every distro everydaysof course this would pissed win users and rant why so many distro. Distrhopper themselves they never realize.
Now, this is something I can agree with. Distro-hopping is a symptom of too many choice. Think about it, what would happen if we had 10s of Windows variants? But in the end, they all could do the same things, only in a slightly different way? Confisering that by paying for one variant, you pay for them all, we would have the same Windows-hopping problem.
Microsoft understands this, so there is only one version of each Windows. Soon, there will be only Windows 10, and who knows?
Maybe after a few years, we will get a Microsofts's version of desktop Linux. They already said Windows 10 will the the last Windows.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#25 Post by Innovate »

Wheelerof4te wrote: Is this about me?
First, I don't consider myself to be a westerner. Second, I can hardly understand you, can you be more clear with what you're saying, you sound like a bot.
Third, logic books=books about logical thinking. And no, I don't read many books about logical thinking. Logic is something obviuos, it's meant to be understood, not read about.

Now, this is something I can agree with. Distro-hopping is a symptom of too many choice. Think about it, what would happen if we had 10s of Windows variants? But in the end, they all could do the same things, only in a slightly different way? We would have the same Windows-hopping problem.
Microsoft understands this, so there is only one version of each Windows. Soon, there will be only Windows 10, and who knows?
Maybe after a few years, we will get a Microsofts's version of desktop Linux. They already said Windows 10 will the the last Windows.
OK thx for warning me, I'll change my way of speech.
& apologize to my devilish personality I cannot stop this personality. Just as you said I'm emotionless.
But one thing for sure I don't have intent to troll anyone. It's just my analogy speech are riddle-talk fill with spikes. Truth can be hurt.

Allow me to confess other sin: I was responsible for That KDE like start menu suggestion to MS Feedback hub.
They take my suggest KDE Start+Cinnamon side icon from 10056 build & implement on 100586 version later on.
Any suggest that they use they'll delete that post after accepted while other suggests still remain in feedback hub.
I feel a bit regret but feel like posioning their w10 sometimes. I never thought they take me seriously that time.
If you notice carefully W10 these day more like KDE5 Startmenu if removed tiles. Cinnamon side menu was my suggestion.

In fact, I already made in ideal winlike distro that surpass Mint, Zorin long ago but I don't want to release.
Because if I do I'll be witch hunt by those troll that said "Why make linux look like windows blah blah" which is annoying.
And Debianies mostly hate it & use wm this is why I didn't post my true desktop screenshots on Debian forum.
Wheelerof4te wrote:Maybe after a few years, we will get a Microsofts's version of desktop Linux. They already said Windows 10 will the the last Windows.
Well If that happen I bet Zorin will lose purpose of winlike distro because copycat can never defeat original.
I think they can do but they're holding back. Those winlike distro exist because they're not waiting MS making.
It's matter of time when will MS make it. Cub/Chromixium was the best sample for make Chrome-like linux
tthat lose purpose from Chrome webstore linux disable for Linux.

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alan stone
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#26 Post by alan stone »

makh wrote: 1. I dont pretty much understand why do we have so many alternates to ... Maximum 3 developed for standard ... should have been enough.
2. Why there are more than a dozen ... Again ... were more than enough.
3. I like ... more than others, personally. But still there may be some lags in it, but having ..., and all others for same single task.
4. So many ...
5. ... is my choice, but there are so many others, for each ...!
6. ..., more than many, competing each other.
7. Ending the basic default list here. (others: ...)

Why not just have 3/4 main ...
Because [fill in the name of your prefered deity] gave you the freedom to make choices? :wink:

EDIT: Every evening people turn their worries over to their [name of their prefered deity]. (S)He/It's going to be up all night anyway. - (adapted from) Mary C. Crowley

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debiman
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#27 Post by debiman »

OP apparently believes that something can objectively be the best.
to me, it is a fallacy of such dimensions that no discussion is possible.

but, playing devil's advocate, if one really believed that, it would indeed make sense to discard 99% of all software. because it's not "The Best".

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#28 Post by oswaldkelso »

As I already run "The best desktop in the world"™. Your search is over folks :-P Discard all that crappy Gnome, KDE and Lenny centric shite. You know I'm right, I mean I must be because I run tbdtitw so you must to. All you keyboard junkies and tiling window manager mob had better just get used to my way! Click & type and tabs in the panel. Discussion not allowed. Bester69 will probably have a heart attack but that's just the way it is. :mrgreen:
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#29 Post by Innovate »

When dev make more software ppl rant = Too many software <<<I do understand too many stuff gonna dizzy.
But....
When dev make less software ppl rant = Linux have less software than Windows <<<WTH?

I think this loop between these 2 will never end. :|

How could I forgot this 3rd reason?
Because build less of them someone gonna make converse accident that linux has less software than Windows instead.
When rant too many software that means converse accident that linux has less software than Windows is extremely false.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#30 Post by pendrachken »

ticojohn wrote:Diversity is great. Without it we would be nothing more than a bunch of workers in a hive.

Nothing wrong with Diversity. Unfortunately Linux is absolutely plagued with NIH ( Not Invented Here ) syndrome. Instead of 500 people working on 3-5 projects and adding tons of nice features to these applications we have 500 people working on 400 projects, each of which copies the others but also has a small chance of having one nice feature at the detriment of the rest of the code because the developer just wanted to focus on that feature. Same thing for why the bulk of Linux / OSS stuff is left in working condition but not polished; the grunt work to design and polish isn't as glamorous as shoveling the next project out the door.


Ubuntu is well known for this - Mir, Upstart, Unity, and I'm sure tons of other crap were written just because the other options weren't written by Ubuntu. Not because there were any inherent flaws in the other software, but just plain because it wasn't an Ubuntu project.
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#31 Post by jmgibson1981 »

I also love diversity. However at what point is diversity > the greater good to. Is something else to consider. The greater good is never considered. Just "what I want to do because it's my right!" Finding the balance between the two is the hard part. I would even argue that resisting the greater good and instead going for diversity is almost selfish by the ones fighting the greater good.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#32 Post by Wheelerof4te »

I'll take unity over diversity anytime. If we compare software development to country's (cultural) development, we'll see that more homogenous countries have richer, more vibrant and historically longer culture.
EDIT: Removed overly-political content.
Last edited by Wheelerof4te on 2018-01-14 10:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#33 Post by debiman »

Wheelerof4te wrote:more homogenous countries have richer, more vibrant and historically longer culture.
Take, for example, (...) the USA.
First is centuries old nearly homogenous country with great working people, rich culture and massive economy for it's size. Very few prisons, crime is almost non-existent and if it happens it's commited by someone who's wielding a knife.
you can't be serious?
let's just agree to disagree...

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#34 Post by Wheelerof4te »

EDIT: Removed mentions of countries, since criticising them is clearly banned here.

The point that I was trying to make is that you need mutual respect, cohesion and unity for any large project to succeed. We don't have much of that in Linux space, but I see a lot of pointless rivalry.
Last edited by Wheelerof4te on 2018-01-14 10:45, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#35 Post by arochester »

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#36 Post by GarryRicketson »

The point that I was trying to make is that you need mutual respect, cohesion and unity for any large project to succeed.
The great Microsoft philosophy , we can succeed if we are a monopoly, and don't allow any other options.

And now that Linux is a large project, every body MUST use only Gnome/unity,
if they don't , there system is unusable . (or at least they need to try to convince us of that)

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#37 Post by GarryRicketson »

Just a additional thought, the recent problems with this "sceptre", and "meldown" , and Intel,.... is another classic example of what happens when
you have 2 monopolies working together, the goal , eliminate choices and diversity, don't permit people to have choices, 20+ other applications that
not only can perform the same tasks, but perform them better are a big threat to the 2 great monopolies, all ways , when there are no other choices, the quality goes down,...these companies are living proof.
Postby makh »@GarryRicketson:
Sir! I am not talking of WMs. Only the "desktops". Routinely, due to Virtualbox, I myself run OB.
This really just goes to show, now the OP does not want to permit any one mentioning Window Managers, which are a desktop application, that perform
the same tasks any Desktop Environment can, with better reliability, less bloat,
etc. Window Managers work well on Laptops, as well as Desktop PC's, and are additional Laptop applications,... But NO, the OP does not want to see any body have choices, nor any one develop new and better applications, it would be a threat to the monopolies they support,... Gnome/unity , and KDE , Linux Mint, will be permitted because they are Windows like, instead of Unix like,
All diversity, and development of other desktop applications must be stopped.
makh wrote:
Did you really read my first post or are the usual troll?
The first post, oh yea, I did read it, and it is a typical absurd post , made by
a usual troll.
============= edit ============
Wheelerof4te »Microsoft understands this, so there is only one version of each Windows. Soon, there will be only Windows 10, and who knows?
Maybe after a few years, we will get a Microsofts's version of desktop Linux. They already said Windows 10 will the the last Windows.
Is that what you are hopping for ? It sure sounds like it.

Since it does not work well, they have to try to keep the monopoly. You can't allow people choices, and expect them to keep using a lousy product.
Eliminate the diversity, and choices, to maintain the monopoly. Intel has been doing the same.
There can never be to many Distros, the more the better, that way users are not stuck with being forced to use the ones that don't work well.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#38 Post by debiman »

GarryRicketson wrote:the recent problems with this "sceptre", and "meldown" , and Intel,.... is another classic example of what happens when you have 2 monopolies working together, the goal , eliminate choices and diversity
good point, mr ricketson.

I'll concede:
it would be nice to have diversity AND unity. those are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but given the nature of people (and it's all about the people working on it, in linux), unlikely.
so, failing that, i'll take diversity over unity every time.
it's a glorious, global community effort.
and we learn how to make it work. maybe slower than the coding itself, but we do.

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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#39 Post by makh »

GarryRicketson wrote:Just a additional thought...
Hi
Sir!
1. This is not WM discussion... sorry to repeat again.
2. This is a focus for a better Linux or Debian "DESKTOP", which has failed from last 25+ years. Still people prefer the closed source OSes with anti viruses.
3. I am not against 20+ OR 2000+ same project, but atleast like Debian, Fedora, Opensuse and probably a few others, a few desktops like xfce, cinnamon or KDE should be feature complete with good basic applications, for normal users. (and the same projects should be branches of each other).
4. If this is trolling, you dont need to post anything, at all. It is being discussed, if others feel something for it. There are many posts with zero replies.

Thankyou
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Re: Desktop Applications (20+ for every one task)

#40 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Yet another Weather Indicator

And it's really easy to use!

Code: Select all

$ go-weather-indicator --city Berlin --country Germany --key API_KEY
Such user friendliness! Who needs GNOME, KDE and all that point and click bloat!
/s

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