I wish people would just to a basic Google search

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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby bw123 » 2018-01-29 22:29

GarryRicketson wrote:Other times AI (artificial intelligence) bots,...1 person can create several, each one registers as a individual, there are a lot of people experimenting with these kind of bots, and when no body (human) seems to notice, or notices, well, that is what the"turing test" is, and the ones humans don't spot pass. We had a couple not to long ago, that failed miserably, ... but I suppose that would be another topic.


I have noticed you do seem fascinated with the subject of AI. I first became aware of how it can fool people around 1993, when I had a bbs prog named "Chat With LISA" and I tell you what, this thing was smart. I still have it, and fire it up occasionally. She's kinda one of those "Hot Bots" if you do it right she will really get off. Pretending to be drunk, sending pics, giving out phone number, etc. It really is amazing, and it is ANCIENT.

This chat prog fooled hundreds of people on bulletin boards, it is just that good. I can't imagine how much things have advanced since then.

I imagine the first test a bot would make is see if the post gets deleted, or replied to. If it's not too personal, how does the forum deal with that?

If I understand things correctly, the "turing test" is given to humans, not to AI?
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby sunrat » 2018-01-29 22:43

anticapitalista wrote:
dcihon wrote:Also they need to do a basic inxi -Fxx to let people helping them to get some information on their systems.

Is inxi installed by default now on Debian?


It's a shame it isn't installed by default. Unfortunately many posters who fail to search for answers to their issues which have already been posted multiple times also fail to be able to install it.
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-30 00:28

I imagine the first test a bot would make is see if the post gets deleted, or replied to----snip---

Most are not very smart, unless they get banned as well, when the post is deleted, they come back and post again,...and so on.
@ by bw123 » I decided better to start a topic in "off topic"
AI bots, search bots, spam bots, so many bots, turing tests
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby dcihon » 2018-01-30 18:14

Maybe we could add in here how to install and use inxi basic command to get the info needed.:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=47078
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-30 19:18

People that don't do searches, also don't read any of the "beginners topics", like the one you refer to, nor the "read this before your first post" , they register, then sometimes they actually do take the time to browse the topics, but not really all that often, so if they happen to notice "Beginners Questions", they go there, start a new topic, and post the problem,.. they do not do any searches, browse the forum and look for other topics on the same problem, or anything
else to try to help their selves.
In relation to the 'inxi' command, utility,... it really was just a example, but any way, I think something that would really be a benefit to the forum, would be if some one started a new "Beginner's Guide", one that is more up-to-date, and can be applied to the current Debian versions. If it is well written, I am sure the admins would consider "sticky" it, so it stays at the top.
It could be titled : The New 2018 Beginners Guide ( or something like that).
But still, these "help vampires", the kind of people that don't do any searches, do not read anything that might help them, as well as do not do any searches.
In any event some members , new beginners and even more experienced ones, would read a Beginners Guide, that is more current and up to date, I am sure of that. (If we had one).
Some one suggests or asks that the OP uses "inxi" and posts the out put. And even includes in the suggestion "You may need to install it",... logic would
say to myself, "Oh, but I don't know how to install it", So I do a simple search , keywords:
Code: Select all
How to install inxi on Debian
, instead of posting a reply, with yet another question,..but I am not a "help vampire". These help vampires, and others (mindless bots) just looking for a excuse to post links to some blog they or their friend wrote, well they won't read the "beginners guide", and won't do any kind of search, and will post yet another question, or a comment pointing toward the site they want to promote.
Like wise, some one that uses the lame excuse: " I don't have time",...honestly,...do you think some one that does not have time to copy/paste :
Code: Select all
How to install inxi on Debian 
into a search box, (engine),... Do you really think they will have and take the time to read your answer , when you post the answer on "How to install inxi on Debian"... ?
Probably not, or the next question will follow,... when you say :
Code: Select all
apt-get install inxi

"Oh , but I don't want to use the terminal, is there a GUI I can use ? "....
A help vampire is never satisfied,... they all ways will come up with more questions, and refuse to do any searches, getting very indignant , when it is suggested.
========== edited =====
Just today, yet another one, this is a classic example of someone that did 0 zero searches, nor browsed the forum, or anything before they posted.
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=136311&p=665243#p665240
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby bw123 » 2018-01-30 22:39

GarryRicketson wrote:I think something that would really be a benefit to the forum, would be if some one started a new "Beginner's Guide", one that is more up-to-date, and can be applied to the current Debian versions. If it is well written, I am sure the admins would consider "sticky" it, so it stays at the top.


Garry, That's brilliant. I like that idea better than editing/replacing Absentminded's posts. That guy is a legend, I'd sure like to see his posts retained and prominently displayed on the forum, forever.

I think a good FAQ, especially for network issues would really be helpful also. I think you have good prose, and with some editing, you could make a really fine start on something like this.

Let me know if there's anything I could do to help make it happen.

Thanks for all the work you do, and everybody else. The forum has lost some good posters, for whatever reason. I hope they haven't passed away, we all will eventually... That doesn't mean it all falls apart.
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby NFT5 » 2018-01-30 23:49

Writing, or re-writing, a Beginner's Guide while it would be great, is likely to be a lot of work. More than most people have the time to devote to such a task.

An alternative, which we've used with great success on another forum that I'm involved with, is to create a Forum Directory. This was done to try to address being besieged by new threads asking the same old questions. Just a single post with the problems/issues in alphabetical order and a link to a thread that has the solution. In essence, an index to important topics in the forum. It's much easier to set up and can be added to as issues come to light. We keep the thread locked, but Mods and Admins can add to it, of course. Naturally the thread is globally stickied and we have a link in the forum header.
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby stevepusser » 2018-01-30 23:52

Make them pass a simple captcha quiz on what we expect them to know before they can join! :twisted:

Such as "These forums are best for help with: (check all that apply)"

□ Kali Linux
□ Debian Linux
□ Ubuntu Linux
□ Windows
□ Tax laws
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: Kdenlive 18.08.1, Pale Moon 28.1.0, wine-staging 3.17, qBittorrent 4.1.3, Liquorix kernel 4.18-13, Audacity 2.3.0
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby Bulkley » 2018-01-31 03:06

I'll second stevepusser's suggestion. :)
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby Thorny » 2018-01-31 13:26

Yeah, good suggestion!

However, I suspect that would only eliminate some of the issue.

And, it would not get rid of all of the "help vampires" who sap the strength and endurance and often, the sense of humour of the most knowledgeable and helpful posters.
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby bw123 » 2018-01-31 14:33

Thorny wrote:Yeah, good suggestion!

However, I suspect that would only eliminate some of the issue.

And, it would not get rid of all of the "help vampires" who sap the strength and endurance and often, the sense of humour of the most knowledgeable and helpful posters.


You are right. I think the best thing is to try and answer questions as fully as possible, and use the friend/foe feature of the forum to remind myself not to fall for the same user twice.
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby Thorny » 2018-01-31 15:45

bw123 wrote:You are right. I think the best thing is to try and answer questions as fully as possible, ...

I've been considering if I should make this comment or not but what the hell! Perhaps not as fully as possible, maybe just fully enough that someone who deserves an answer can do what they should do, a bit of research, and then answer more fully and/or answer whatever smart questions they come back with.

That is totally subjective and would not be appropriate for a commercial help line, but that does not describe DUF.
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby sunrat » 2018-01-31 22:18

You know the old saying "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; show him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime".
I often like to give pointers to how they can solve their problem rather than detail every step required.
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Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby Thorny » 2018-02-01 10:01

sunrat wrote:You know the old saying "Give a man a fish, he eats for a day; show him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime".

I for one am certainly familiar with it. It is a clearly understandable philosophy. When I first started with GNU/Linux it was a common phrase (or some form of it) that appeared in Newsgroup posts. It makes sense if one is working with users that want to learn, unfortunately, some users just want the answer they want and they want it, right now. I suppose I'm nostalgic but I would like to see the saying you quoted show up more often but skeptical that it would change things much. I'm a dinosaur. :-)

[edit] Hey, maybe I should change my avatar to a dinosaur. :-)
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Re: I wish people would just to a basic Google search

Postby Thorny » 2018-02-03 11:47

As a corollary to the topic, "I wish people would just do a basic Google"(or whatever search engine you choose)"search", I wish knowledgeable posters would read all of the posts in a thread before posting, especially when they are posting advice that has already been given or asking for data that has already been shown in the thread. It makes it appear that they have only read the last post of a thread before writing their post.

That written, I do consider it appropriate to support answers that have already been given, it lends credibility to them and can be a benefit for the OP and others reading.

Now I do understand how some could consider just reading the last post in a thread efficient from their point of view, especially on long threads but sometimes it makes their answers look ignorant, even when they are generally knowledgeable and helpful in the forum.

This is not directed at any of the posters here, please just read it as my general opinion.

[edit] In order to be more clear. I don't mean the case where one poster is composing at the same time as another and their posts are a few minutes apart because one finished first.
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