Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

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Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby Symptom » 2018-03-20 07:56

I am confused. I have installed several distributions with Virtual Box and I often engage errors.

1. Yesterday, I tried to install Debian 9 and I got an error, while I was on the selection of software (KDE, GNOME,...). I tried several times and I engaged the same error.
Then, I decided to start a new Virtual Machine and everything installed just fine.
2. After that, I engaged a problem with VBox guest additions mounting. The seventh guide worked.
3. Thereafter, I tried to install Anaconda and I got an encoding error.
4. Finally, I tried to install some python libs and jupyter and I got a new error; wherever I tried to use sudo, I got "[username] is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported."

Furthermore, I am so confused with Debian GUI way of thinking. In past, I used Debian CLI and I had not engaged any major problem through the learning curve; however, GUI's directories are more complex and the hybrid use of "download through browser -> run installer" and "install via terminal" confuses me even more.

1. Is there any standard way to bypass that "download -> run" and use only terminal to install an application/package?
2. Ubuntu is supposed to be based on Debian. Why its guides do not work in Debian? Is it because of different directories or is it a completely different approach?
3. Why I got so many errors? Am I unlucky or did I do something wrong?
4. Are these generic errors or it may have to do with VBox?
5. Is it better to install using su account, or normal account and use sudo and su - commands? I'm the only user.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby hexadeximal » 2018-03-20 09:12

For point 4 you need to add your user to the sudo group,
as root run:
gpasswd -a user sudo

and if you want to install .deb file from the command line, just run
sudo dpkg -i pgk.deb

Hard to say anything about the errors since you did not post them here.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby pawRoot » 2018-03-20 09:25

Symptom wrote:2. Ubuntu is supposed to be based on Debian. Why its guides do not work in Debian? Is it because of different directories or is it a completely different approach?


What kind of guides exactly ?
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby Symptom » 2018-03-20 09:54

pawRoot wrote:
Symptom wrote:2. Ubuntu is supposed to be based on Debian. Why its guides do not work in Debian? Is it because of different directories or is it a completely different approach?


What kind of guides exactly ?

Installation via terminal and troubleshoot guides. Almost any installation guide via terminal I have tried does not work for different reasons. Either the directory does not exist, or the command isn't there due to packages etc. Is it better to skip Ubuntu guides in general or will they work if I adjust the directories and use the appropriate commands?
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby pawRoot » 2018-03-20 10:37

Ubuntu guides that you can find on blogs etc. are most of the time bad, telling you to add
3rd party repositories etc.

Also you would need to give an example of what doesn't work for you.

https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby stevepusser » 2018-03-20 16:39

Ubuntu is NOT Debian. For example, it has sudo by default, and all the guides assume that. Debian gives you a choice whether to enable sudo during the installation.

Have you even looked in the Debian wiki for How To guides instead of random Ubuntu blogs on the Net?
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Re:

Postby debiman » 2018-03-20 17:30

Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

for me it's a feature, not a bug.
it's born from a global community effort - of course it's different from an OS generated by a centralised, for-profit organisation.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby sunrat » 2018-03-20 21:39

Ubuntu is derived from Debian, therefore it is Ubuntu that is inconsistent. :mrgreen:
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby alan stone » 2018-03-21 05:54

Symptom wrote:Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Because it's consistent with how it's designed i.e. neither plug and play, neither plug and pray.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby debiman » 2018-03-21 07:17

alan stone wrote:plug and pray

nice, haven't heard that one before!
reminds me of what i call Windows Voodoo:
"Install unrelated package X and reboot twice while standing on one leg. I swear, that fixes the issue!"
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-03-21 13:31

I suppose a Windows user would find Linux inconsistent, compared to windows.

There are so many distros, all Linux based but also each one is different, has it's own repositories for software,etc. And the packages do need to be compiled for each specific distro,...so some distros a work better then others, and what worked for Ubutu for example, won't work for Debian, combined with inconsistent and totally illogical users that for some mysterious reason think they should read and follow the installation guide for ubutu, when they are installing a totally different distro, IE: Debian,... I mean , a more logical approach to start with, Use the Debian install manual for Debian,.... for Ubutu, logically , one would use the Ubutu manual,....
On Windows, it is just windows, and nothing works, so it is consistently broken.
There is no confusion, this or that program / malware is for windows, and it consistently installs the malware on any windows system, that is consistent.
So it is much easier to write/create viruses and other malware, that will work on any windows system, where as with Linux, some one might compile some piece of malware, and put it in the Linux Mint packages, it would affect the linux mint users, but it would not affect other distros,and maybe would not
even work or be installable on some other distro. This is very inconvenient and inconsistent, for those that try to create software (malware), that can spy,and control ,etc, every PC in the world. It also is inconvenient for the antivirus program writers, developers,.... really , think about it,... if all the PC systems were unix like, each one with it's "inconsistent" system, it would be rather hard to create spy ware/malware and viruses that could be depended on to work the same on each system, and if there was no virises, mal ware etc,..the anti - virus / anti malware companies would go out of business.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby steve_v » 2018-03-23 11:35

debiman wrote:
alan stone wrote:plug and pray

haven't heard that one before!

I think this sums up the origin nicely. :P
It's older than that though, plug 'n pray goes back to DOS, where it pretty much never worked. I made a habit of looking for the jumpers on ISA cards before buying one, just to avoid that ugly mess.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-03-23 12:37

If you are puzzled by Linux incosnsistency, stick to the original or mainstream distros. Debian and Fedora are so called "origin" distros. Ubuntu and Mint (and nowadays Manjaro) are considered "mainstream". Use either of these, all have good software collections and support wide ranges of hardware.
1. Is there any standard way to bypass that "download -> run" and use only terminal to install an application/package?

Yes, in any of mentioned distros.
2. Ubuntu is supposed to be based on Debian. Why its guides do not work in Debian? Is it because of different directories or is it a completely different approach

Ubuntu is not Debian. Simple.
3. Why I got so many errors? Am I unlucky or did I do something wrong?

Most of the errors in Linux are either user-based or your hardware isn't supported well. Or you didn't install required drivers or firmware.
5. Is it better to install using su account, or normal account and use sudo and su - commands? I'm the only user.

We don't know, it's subjective. Lot of guides for Ubuntu use sudo, Debian uses su. But you can set up sudo on Debian easily.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby stevepusser » 2018-03-23 17:42

One may as well ask why automobiles don't all have the exact same control layout in the cockpit, and why the user manual for one make is different than one for another. Jeesh.
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Re: Why do Linux seem inconsistent?

Postby milomak » 2018-03-23 20:25

there was a time i used to run debian, arch, gentoo and maybe slackware

i'd spend maybe a week on one and ecide to boot into another. initially this used to drive me crazy as it felt i had booted intoa whole new world.

as i continued to do this (for a number of years), i became in touch with each of them. so much so that if there was an issue in gentoo and i read an arch fix; i could figure out what the gentoo related fix should be most of the time.

and that became to me the beauty of linux. that it offers the variety. and that is what is meant to be. to offer variety.

so yes i understand that if i see a solution on an ubuntu board that says install this repo. i know i need to see if debian has that package (i run sid so this means a good fair few times i can find a corresponding package). but if not available, i am more than willing to write to the package maintainer and explain the problem in debian and offer what scrolling the net has suggested.

but if you are looking for consistency in linux, i would suggest you are in the wrong place if you are not willing to understand why inconsistencies happen and that i) you may be able to adapt them to your distro of choice or ii) you may need to wait before the fix is implemented in your distro. but each distro has some thing over the other. so either you do what i initially did and run as many as possible. or choose the one yu like and learn it's quirks and understand for instance where the equivalent location for a file in arch is compared to debian.

understand though that is for you to take yout own journey. if you ask questions and show signs of having researched and tried to understand, people will be more than willing to help.
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