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Cambridge Analytica

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Wheelerof4te
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#41 Post by Wheelerof4te »

@Lysander
Great assessment of the current generation's mentality regarding usage of Internet.
Lysander wrote:Is there an anti-speculation policy? Please speculate away.
I wanted to avoid it because it's heavily related to today's politics. Internet has become main medium for propaganda as tool used against individuals and "undemocratic, dictatorial regimes" for subversive purposes. Clearly, it's being centralised, controlled to filter out any "extreme" though, "naratives that don't coincide with the right way of thinking".
True, there are alternative media outlets, but vast majority of general public doesn't know or care enough about them.
As you have said, everything is becoming squashed into "social media" and heavily biased news sites. Seems to me like they are sounding the drums of another major war, or a rather big international escalation.
Last edited by Wheelerof4te on 2018-03-22 11:33, edited 2 times in total.

n_hologram
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#42 Post by n_hologram »

I think this entire conversation is a result of the modern era's desire to use the internet for entertainment over information.
Exhibit A:
Lysander wrote:some people say that the argument of "I only use FB to keep in contact with friends" holds no water but this isn't totally true. You'll find that if you do delete your account, the large majority of your FB friends will never contact you again...communication has become about platforms rather than individuals. We don't care who we're talking to, as long as our brain is being fed enough dopamine to keep us occupied.
Two profoundly important points were brought up here: platforms and dopamine. Look no further than modern teenagers for countless examples. There's still SO much they don't understand, really basic principles, about how programs like Snapchat are used; the platform is all that matters. If you ever want to make a really good impression, ask them explain to you how to prevent tracking, and then explain the role of the IP address, which has been around for awhile, and cannot be disabled. They have no idea that THIS is even one data point that can be used, not to mention what the app harvests about other apps based on API rules (not leaks or exploits, but rules).

The dopamine effect is a recently-studied idea, and I'm still doing my own research about it. However, with absurd teen-suicide rates, I'm interested to learn what role dopamine plays, particularly for a developing brain. I don't think the rule would apply in quite the same way to adults. The teenager, though, is pretty unique, because their entire world -- and self-esetem -- IS social networking; not to mention the part of the brain that is inhibited when one drinks alcohol is also inhibited during puberty. Classically, the network is developed in real-life, with all its benefits and caveats; the entertainment-driven internet era has broadened not just the scope of showing-off and bullying, but the frequency as well, and also justifies the previous comment about platform usage. ("If all of your friends leaked data to the NSA, would you?" The answer from a teenager is, maybe.) So, the kid who is bullied online is going to feel those effects offline, and because all their other friends -- and, therefore, their self-esteem -- are online, it becomes a vicious circuit. Long story short, it's not as simple as "just unplug," because if every teenager's friends use a platform, there's little incentive to "just stop," regardless how the data is being [mis]handled.

I think it's important to start conversing about real issues (not hypothetical, long-term possibilities), and focusing on device-free blocks of time. Have those meaningful, non-aggressive conversations while they're still impressionable, because they are the future infrastructure-makers and users.
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oswaldkelso
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#43 Post by oswaldkelso »

"I still don't see what was the crime?"
They took information that was supposedly for academic research and used it improperly for commercial and political gain.

In short. if it was the stock market, insider trading. They fixed the market with their inside information to convince stockholders what to do with their shares.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#44 Post by acewiza »

oswaldkelso wrote:In short. if it was the stock market, insider trading.
The line between inside and outside information is blurring.
Nobody would ever ask questions If everyone possessed encyclopedic knowledge of the man pages.

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#45 Post by Lysander »

Wheelerof4te wrote:Clearly, it's being centralised, controlled to filter out any "extreme" though, "naratives that don't coincide with the right way of thinking".
Just one example of this is the regulation of pornographic material in the UK. In the late 2000s the government passed a law against "extreme pornography" where anyone who possessed pornography which related to non-consent, BDSM etc could be arrested. Since then there have been multiple arrests because of possession of "extreme" porn [child porn was already illegal, this was supplementary].

This year, the UK is now seeking to make all pornographic websites age-verifiable. Users will have to hand over credit card details to gain access. This was originally going to be enforced next month but now it's been pushed back to the end of the year. Gradually there is a knock-on effect as forms of media are processually considered unsuitable and furthermore restricted or illegalised. It is slow erosion of fringe interests that do not fall in line with mainsteam thinking.

Quoth Groucho Marx:

If any form of pleasure is exhibited
Report to me and it will be prohibited
I'll put my foot down, so shall it be
This is the land of the free

Wheelerof4te wrote:True, there are alternative media outlets, but vast majority of general public doesn't know or care enough about them.
I take it you're referring to the newspapers and online 'media' but the same can be said of alternative subcultures and their outlets. In London there is hardly any subcultural representation anymore. One no longer sees punks, goths, ravers, metalheads etc on the streets here - and for such a diverse city, that is surprising. Everyone looks the same. It can be no coincidence that the younger generations spend so much time on social media, which has a profound effect on how we see ourselves and others.
n_hologram wrote:However, with absurd teen-suicide rates, I'm interested to learn what role dopamine plays, particularly for a developing brain. I don't think the rule would apply in quite the same way to adults. The teenager, though, is pretty unique, because their entire world -- and self-esetem -- IS social networking.... So, the kid who is bullied online is going to feel those effects offline, and because all their other friends -- and, therefore, their self-esteem -- are online, it becomes a vicious circuit. Long story short, it's not as simple as "just unplug," because if every teenager's friends use a platform, there's little incentive to "just stop," regardless how the data is being [mis]handled.
I would not be surprised - in fact I fully expect - the governments/tech firms to have conducted tests to see how much the effects of social media can replicate [or even give] similar pleasures as those derived from soft drug use. The same could be said for smartphone gaming, e.g. gem games. These games are graphically attractive and brightly-coloured, giving constant rewards to the user. They're almost psychedelic. People do not read books as much as they used to on public transport either: literature is provided for them in newspapers such as Metro or Evening Standard which are free and funded by advertisers. This is, in all senses of the word, the Orwellian 'prolefeed' that was written about in the '40s. The irony is that any mention of such in social circles will be deemed as 'tin foil hat' since people are in denial as to the true state of society and like to think of themselves as individuals who are free-minded and unmanipulatable when in truth, manipulation - by its very nature - must be covert and undetectable.

You're correct in that it's not as simple as "just unplug": one can switch off one's phone and walk away from social media temporarily but words can still linger in our subconscious, exerting all-too-real effects in the physical world. A recent example is the tragic death of a young porn star, August Ames, who killed herself following a backlash on Twitter.

This is what happens when everyone gets a voice. Up till the 21st century, only the words of the influential, powerful and knowledgeable were heard en masse. Those who had - for better or worse - worked to get to their positions of national or international renown. Now absolutely anyone can be heard by anyone, but the issue is that the large majority of people have little useful to say and will resort to emotional, cheap methods of attention-seeking or the fostering of political microissues to get noticed. Social media helps all of this material proliferate, to mostly negative - or even disastrous - effect. If you quiz the average FB user you'll find that they know its use has negative ramifications but they feel they can't stop using it, which is the text-book definition of addiction.

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debiman
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#46 Post by debiman »

bw123 wrote:I like to try and understand, that's all. No, I don't think this is FUD, but I am always suspicious when the wolves and billionaires attack each other openly in the press.
of course the investigations into trump's campaigns kicked loose some stones, but i'd like to think that christopher wylie's contributions made it an avalanche.
he said his reason for coming forward with this years after he left the company were seeing how trump won the election and knowing that cambridge analytica's questionable practices had a strong role in that.
I used to like talk radio myself, but gave it up because all they do now is talk about what they read on the internet, and heck I can read.
one of the stations i listen to is deutschlandradio which has its roots in global, german-language broadcasts on shortwave radio. i have deep respect for their journalism, and i like that they do not lean in my direction politically.
another is the bbc world service , and then there's two random US american stations.
I still don;t see what was the crime?
a few thousand (30.000 iirc) users of an app agreed to hand all their facebook data to some company affiliated with cambridge analytica, for a few bucks.
through that, CA gained access to all their friends (and friends' friends?) data, too, resulting in a 50 million facebook users data breach.
paid for by steve bannon i think, all this was used to create advertising, fake content - fearmongering - to make people vote for trump.
the data breach is the crime that cambridge analytica willl have to answer for, and also facebook/zuckerberg (i heard a very lame excuse today: he/they knew about it, but thought that CA would delete this data).
i really hope they won't manage to look like the good guys in this one.
shares are still plumetting, nyah nyah nyah.

US bigshots are questioning why certain laws about election campaigning advertisment do not apply to facebook ads, and that they should. amongst other things, i'd like to add.
i'm pretty sure that in europe there's more coming by way of regulations and fines ("up to 4% of the company's global income" is a phrase i heard).

again, don't take my word for it, find a few sources of information (it's the age of the internet godammit) and try to get a fairly objective picture.

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#47 Post by n_hologram »

debiman wrote:two random US american stations.
Which two?
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#48 Post by pawRoot »

debiman wrote: another is the bbc world service
Is there something worse than BBC and CNN ?

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#49 Post by Lysander »

pawRoot wrote:
debiman wrote: another is the bbc world service
Is there something worse than BBC and CNN ?
The BBC has a highly left wing agenda, and a browse of its News site for more than five minutes will make this exceedingly obvious. There is nothing wrong with having a left or right wing agenda per se, but a shameless, extreme tilting in either direction casts a distorted view of reality. The BBC's articles are little more than sensationalist clickbait, it is no longer a site relating accurate and unbiased news reportage, it is purely interested in high traffic. I can't speak for the World Service since I don't listen to it; I hope it has escaped this fate but my inkling is that it hasn't.

If you want a relatively unbiased, non-sensationalist news site/channel the best I could recommend would be Al Jazeera. Bias in news is pretty much a given, but they seem to be the more neutral end of the sliding scale.

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#50 Post by pawRoot »

Lysander wrote: Al Jazeera. Bias in news is pretty much a given, but they seem to be the more neutral end of the sliding scale.
No pleaseeeee, Al Jazeera is full of propaganda aswell, same for RT.

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#51 Post by Lysander »

pawRoot wrote:
Lysander wrote: Al Jazeera. Bias in news is pretty much a given, but they seem to be the more neutral end of the sliding scale.
No pleaseeeee, Al Jazeera is full of propaganda aswell, same for RT.
I think "full of propaganda" is being rather generous. As I say, it's a sliding scale with AJ being far more neutral than others.

Care to enlighten us as to your personal preference?

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#52 Post by oswaldkelso »

Whilst the BBC web news and TV news is pretty crap and catering for people that like headlines. I've always found the BBC web new far to right wing for my tastes and the comments section even worse. On the other hand The world service and BBC radio 4 is very balanced, informative and thorough. They have to be as they never know which party will be in government next and what they'll do about their funding.

Whilst I'm sure I could list reams of worse places to get the news. I'd be really interested in knowing better places to get real, as unbiased as possible news.

I've never had a facebook account nor a TV for the best part of 30 years so I get my news from the aforementioned BBC radio channels, Democracy Now, and Aljazira English online. That said my main source of news is "The Guardian". Not because it reflects my own political leanings but because it's owned in trust rather than by some money making mogul. I've also noted it seems to just report the news, even views I don't particularly want to hear! I actually find some of the best information in the comments section of their articles.

The only actual "Paper" I buy is Private eye. They take no prisoners and take the piss out of everyone no matter what.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#53 Post by pawRoot »

Lysander wrote: I think "full of propaganda" is being rather generous.
I saw some of their videos and said never again.
Lysander wrote: Care to enlighten us as to your personal preference?


I don't really have any preferences, i just read articles on multiple websites and try to filter
information.
Most of the media is now leftist propaganda basically, anti-white, pro israel etc etc...

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#54 Post by bw123 »

oswaldkelso wrote: <snip>
Whilst I'm sure I could list reams of worse places to get the news. I'd be really interested in knowing better places to get real, as unbiased as possible news.
<snip>
I'd be satisfied with biased news if it was timely, lately I only get informed after the fact. This is about a bill that passed two days ago, I never heard of it and I follow quite a few mainstream and alternative sources.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/h ... d-internet

EDIT: Here's another, passed yesterday, signed into law about an hour ago.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/r ... act-passes

P.s. twitter, facebook, and google+ links are included on the eff pages.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#55 Post by None1975 »

Lysander wrote:The BBC has a highly left wing agenda, and a browse of its News site for more than five minutes will make this exceedingly obvious.
You think that BBC is from left wing, and maybe you think that UK is a socialist country? This is the greatest nonsense that I've read. BBC reflects the interests of capitalists. Neither more nor less.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#56 Post by n_hologram »

None1975 wrote:This is the greatest nonsense that I've read.
If THAT'S your standard for nonsense, you need to watch some Alex Jones videos.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#57 Post by alan stone »

bw123 wrote:
debiman wrote:
I've been working to understand exactly what happened and how to make sure this doesn't happen again. The good news is that the most important actions to prevent this from happening again today we have already taken years ago.
idk wtf that's even supposed to mean.
according to various articles facebook knew exactly what cambridge analytica (amongst others, i presume) were doing, and decided to turn a blind eye.
of course now this is all going south, they are more than willing to turn on their former partners in crime.
1) what exactly "happened?"
2) what exactly do we want to "prevent from happening again?"
The issues are explained in detail here.

The conclusion: "...the problem can only be fixed legislatively or if all of said firms are driven out of business due to mass-revulsion by the people -- either way the only fix is if pulling this crap is an instant corporate death sentence right here, right now."

Hence I correct what I wrote earlier... both are necessary to fix this.

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#58 Post by pcalvert »

bw123 wrote: 1) what exactly "happened?"
2) what exactly do we want to "prevent from happening again?"
3) what exactly do you mean by "...facebook knew exactly what cambridge analytica (amongst others, i presume) were doing?"
4) what do you mean by, "...facebook... decided to turn a blind eye?" BLIND EYE ABOUT WHAT?
5) What crime was commited that they are, "...willing to turn on their former partners in crime?"

I'm not a lawyer, but you can't just acccuse people of crimes, can you? I am not fan of facebook, I have never used it, but this is insane. Check the logic.
Another question I would add is this:
6) How is it different from Facebook sharing their data with the Obama campaign in 2012 (and earlier)?
Freespoke is a new search engine that respects user privacy and does not engage in censorship.

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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#59 Post by Wheelerof4te »

None1975 wrote:BBC reflects the interests of capitalists. Neither more nor less.
It reflects the interests of neo-liberals, which is a common name given to people who believe in maximum individual freedoms, and money above else. These people can buy others and will be bought for whatever purpose that promotes their ideal. They are also called "economical hitmen", since they will use their wealth to bribe and subvert entire countries.
Other extreme is neo-conservative, or neocon ideology. These people are more right-wing and conservative, but also believe in their superiority and wealth. They will use any means neccesary, including military power, to push their agenda. They are often firm, fanatical believers. If neo-liberals fail, these guys will go in and do the job with brute force.

Neo-liberals and neo-cons appeared to be rivals, but they worked hand-in-hand for decades. And they supplemented each other perfectly.
Until now. Now they are at each-other's throats.
Now, what does this have to do with Facebook? Well, Facebook and its founder are obviously neo-liberal stooges. So is most of the media in US and UK. Trump and most of his team are neo-con. You do the math.
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Re: Cambridge Analytica

#60 Post by bw123 »

alan stone wrote:The issues are explained in detail here.

The conclusion: "...the problem can only be fixed legislatively or if all of said firms are driven out of business due to mass-revulsion by the people -- either way the only fix is if pulling this crap is an instant corporate death sentence right here, right now."

Hence I correct what I wrote earlier... both are necessary to fix this.
This link above is a brilliant explanation. I snagged some beef ribs the other day and smoked them up on the grill, then after gnawing a few thought I'd make some soup out of the bones. I looked up bone soup on the net and hit several of the big recipe sites. Turned out good! and by gawd this morning on google news page there is an "editor's pick" link to an article about people who like bone broth. Also on the same page a link in "health" about how grilling meat causes cancer. I have cookies and javascript ublocked/noscript (isn't really the same as disabled), I never sign into anything, and I wondered, "How they did that?"

The problem with legislation for me, at least here in the US, is our politicians are idiots, and aren't competent to do this work. For instance the whole "digital TV" fiasco that spent 40Billion on advertising and got us a broadcast signal that is too close to the 4G band to be reliable. The media made a fortune, the people got screwed.
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