A Leap to Testing

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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Lysander » 2018-01-02 18:01

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
We'll move to stretch after you guys have done a bit more testing for us :mrgreen:


I did try it with the Stretch flatpak. It installed fine but the icon looked awful - it's not searchable either and it can't be pinned to the GNOME favourites [I also installed gnome-software-plugin-flatpak].

Worked great in Jessie when I used it back in the day.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby dotlj » 2018-01-02 23:20

In Stretch, I didn't have any problems with the 4.9 kernel and I've also installed 4.13 from backports which works nicely.
In Testing and Sid, things work. Sometimes in Sid, I'll wait before upgrading a package until it is fixed.
One thing I do when installing Debian is to use the minimal system install, then add only the packages that I want.
I use apt-listbugs which shows any bugs before installing, when I update. Frequently the bugs are fixed in amd64 and only apply to another architecture which doesn't affect me, or the bug applies in a situation that doesn't affect me.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-03 14:37

There is one good practice that many experienced users who run Debian Testing/Sid do. They run a minimal, bare-bones system. That way the amount of packages that can break dependencies is very small. While runing a minimal openbox, fluxbox or similar WM systems is impractical for most "casual" users, you can consider the following:

1. Install a minimal system without a DE, as you would anyway if you need Testing/Sid. When you select a DE during normal Debian Stable installation, you actually choose very bloated collection of software. This way you can add what you need later.
2. Choose one of the "core" versions of popular DE (gnome-core, kde-plasma-desktop etc.) You will be able to install other packages, as the need arises. The advantage here is the same as with minimal WM systems. You are running only a selected groups of manually (this is very important to notice) installed packages. Packages that are installed automatically (as in, pulled as a dependency of another package) are more likely to break other packages when you do your cleaning with:
Code: Select all
apt autoremove
or
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apt dist-upgrade


Here is an example of the above (do this after booting to minimal system):
Code: Select all
apt install gnome-core chromium transmission vlc gimp libreoffice-writer libreoffice-calc libreoffice-impress rhytmbox

This is one nice, base system that will pull most of the needed misc software also. You can swap media players or the browser with ones you like. You can also install some other office suite, but LO is the best, hands on. Notice how I selected only three LO programs (and not the libreoffice metapackage), cause these are ones that are used most often.
And there you have it. Not so hard, right?
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby GarryRicketson » 2018-01-03 15:18

by Wheelerof4te » While runing a minimal openbox, fluxbox or similar WM systems is impractical for most "casual" users, ----snip----


Apology, first , for my ignorance,...but I fail to understand this reasoning,...
I am no "super user" nor expert, which is why I have not used SID or "testing",
But like wise, as a casual user, I find the simplicity and the way it "just works", in a WM very practical, and soooo much more reliable then any of the DE's I tried.

by Wheelerof4te » 2. Choose one of the "core" versions of popular DE (gnome-core, kde-plasma-desktop etc.) You will be able to install other packages, as the need arises.

I think some of this is just opinion, but again since I am not very advanced, and
not a " super user", I used to have so many problems, with crashes and the
"Oh no something went wrong" messages.
Any way, once I learned to avoid anything that pulls in Gnome packages, and the DE packages that I don't need or want in my system, life got much simpler and easier, ...
Chromium, was another thing,... and when I started over with a minimal install, and a clean base, NO GNOME, No Chromium, NO Libreoffice,... NO Gimp,...etc..
To my surprise, everything "just works", all the hassles and headaches of a overly complex and bloated system,...it was refreshing, and I have never looked back.
But then again, I am not any kind of "Super User", I suppose for the super users, and experts, 2. Choose one of the "core" versions of popular -----snip--
it is necessary to do all of this. If I was a secretary, or student I can see how some of the Libre Office programs might be necessary, but I am not.

This is one nice, base system that will pull most of the needed misc software also.

Not a "base" system anymore, but a full blown DE, Office Sweet, that has pulled in all sorts of "misc software", that I don't need and have no clue as to what it is for, but when it causes a crash, nothing else works either and since I am not a Super User, nor expert, and do not have the time, patience nor desire to sort out all the problems,.. a re-install , and just installing a simple, clean "base system", with a WM , editor, Mplayer, and a few simple tools I use,
is more suitable to me,... of course we all have different needs and tastes.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-03 15:36

I understand you very well, Garry. "Casual" users in my previous post are people who are used to Ubuntu and other full-blown OOTB experiences. Minimalism is not for everybody, but if one can reduce the amount of packages he/she doesn't really need, then it's all for the better.

Bear in mind that most even entry-level hardware today and in past few years can run GNOME comfortably. I am not talking about Pentium 4 here, but common Intel-Core or AMD machines. If someone wants to game, he will buy a better rig.
GarryRicketson wrote:a minimal install, and a clean base, NO GNOME, No Chromium, NO Libreoffice,... NO Gimp,...etc..

Sorry, I don't find such a system usable to mentioned "casual" people, and even myself. But not to stray far from the topic, I will aknowladge there are users (particulary older) who can use it.

And most importantly, I was giving an advice to Ubuntu-like users who are considering a switch to Debian Testing/Sid. Stable might be good for you (don't worry, I know you use OpenBSD now) but plenty of users complain about it's "outdateness". And no, I don't care if that isn't even a word.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby dotlj » 2018-01-04 00:45

I think that we all need to experiment, try various distros, find the one that suits us best, then customize it. The choice in Debian is excellent and I've been happy with it for many years.
As any user learns more about Debian, then they are able to do more such as install what they want and not install what they don't want. This seems to result in a number of Debian users moving towards minimal systems.
See for example the post of minimal RAM usage.
I use LibreOffice but use the
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apt-get --no-install-recommends install libreoffice

to do that, as the usual install pulls in java which may be one of the most popular languages but is also well known for vulnerabilities which I don't need.
There are a whole lot of other options such as using non Debian repositories, which generally I try to avoid. I have in the past tried LibreOffice from their website and several other packages, but as the differences between the current version and what is available in Debian stable are minimal, I haven't noticed any difference.
The only packages that I install from outside Debian repositories now are things like Signal messenger from https://signal.org/download/.
Hopefully, it will be available in the Debian repositories soon.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Funkygoby » 2018-01-16 15:32

It seems to me that the today-testing isn't the same I used to use back in the days (during the lenny squeeze days).
The very annoying things that used to happen was important package going missing. When one package would break stuff (ATI proprio fglrx driver), dev would promptly remove it for some days/weeks/month until fixed.
So I ended up with no fglrx driver. At that time the radeon/radeonhd weren't what they are today. A fellow, more advanced user, repacked the driver from an older version I think and made a repository, saving our asses in the same time.

My advice may be outdated but I recommand you add stable repository (and unstable with a strong pinning). So if a package disappear, you still have some fallback version from stable or unstable.

My 2nd advice would be, use unstable with good hygiene instead of testing(is apt bug list still a thing?). Testing ins't a semi-stable Debian. It feels safe but it can be rodeo-like Debian.

Unstable feels like a clean shared appartement. A lot of stuff happens but it's still sufferable and even a pleasure for those looking for activity/party.
Testing is like a house being built. With walls and a roof, you can start to live in here but the next day, workers come in, wake you up and mess the whole house, moving the concrete machine, using drills etc ...
Stable, of course, would be the home of your grandparents or your childhood where nothing moves.

This is to share my perception of the Debian versionning.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Job » 2018-01-19 17:58

After over 10 years of using Debian as my main OS, I am for the first time, running Stable. My machine started freezing on while playing video even before the release of Strech from testing. I was hoping that will go away but did not. I have tested my RAM, check my hard drive, video card, can't find the issue. So I am tempted to go back to testing but I am too old to be playing with stuff, I was hoping for a perfectly working Stable.
#aptitude install life
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stretch - Devuan - Jessie (Media Center, yes, believe it)
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Innovate » 2018-01-20 04:40

It's so hilarious even Google start to based on Debian Buster Testing as well. GLinux that is.

https://itsfoss.com/goobuntu-glinux-google/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R68cCTEr6wo
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby pylkko » 2018-01-20 12:27

Innovate wrote:It's so hilarious even Google start to based on Debian Buster Testing as well. GLinux that is.

https://itsfoss.com/goobuntu-glinux-google/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R68cCTEr6wo


Why exactly is that 'hilarious'? You do know that Ubuntu has been based on a snapshot of Debian testing for some decades?
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Innovate » 2018-01-20 16:41

pylkko wrote:Why exactly is that 'hilarious'? You do know that Ubuntu has been based on a snapshot of Debian testing for some decades?

And do you even know that I'd already knew that:
Ubuntu has been based on a snapshot of Debian testing for some decades
since before joined this forum?

Don't try to meddle affair if you don't know what I really laughing at it's none of your business.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby PeterB » 2018-01-20 17:35

Wheelerof4te wrote:If anyone has some tips for running a Testing system, please share them.

My tip is to keep an eye on the transition tracker
https://release.debian.org/transitions/

Try to avoid updates that leave you straddling an incomplete transition!


Regards,
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-01-25 13:07

So, I heard that GNOME team wants to ditch desktop icons in 3.28, and I have to (un)have that new feature ASAP :mrgreen:
The logical step:
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cat /etc/apt/sources.list
 
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ sid main contrib non-free
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby stevepusser » 2018-01-29 18:29

You can drop my qbittorrent repo you have listed there; it looks like testing is now keeping it current. I also have now added Buster to the compiz-reloaded repository.
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Re: A Leap to Testing

Postby pylkko » 2018-04-03 10:07

Innovate wrote:
pylkko wrote:Why exactly is that 'hilarious'? You do know that Ubuntu has been based on a snapshot of Debian testing for some decades?

And do you even know that I'd already knew that:
Ubuntu has been based on a snapshot of Debian testing for some decades
since before joined this forum?

Don't try to meddle affair if you don't know what I really laughing at it's none of your business.


Uhm, no. Why would I know that if your behavior does not indicate that?
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