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DUF is (not) Debian

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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golinux
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Re: DUF is not Debian

#21 Post by golinux »

The attributions in n_hologram's post were inaccurate but I finally found this quote. I remember reading it at the time and wondering how anyone who knew anything about Debian's history could make this statement:
Wheelerof4te wrote:Since Ian's death, this OS has went under and it's getting worse with each new release. Without it's creator to guide Debian, I fear it won't last long in The OS Swamp with so many crocodiles.
This is pure fantasy. Ian left the Debian project in the early 90s. Are you saying it's been downhill since then? Or did you think that he was still involved with Debian at the time of his death?

Those who forget history are doomed to reinvent it poorly . . .
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Re: DUF is not Debian

#22 Post by dilberts_left_nut »

n_hologram wrote:you seem to want to help new Linux members. Why not start a blog or something that's targeted towards new Linux users?
Another one?
Surely that would just be increasing the confusing choices - there should clearly be only ONE linux newbie blog, that all the bloggers could work on together, so it would be the bestest newbie blog eva, and take all the market shares away from that nasty windows blog.
:roll:
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debiman
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Re: DUF is not Debian

#23 Post by debiman »

dear Wheeleroffourte, i own 3 computers:

laptop runs armbian
desktop runs archlinux
server runs debian

so that makes only 33.333333333333333% debian (and oldstable at that).

am i allowed to post here?

yours sincerely,

a confused penguin.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#24 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Lysander wrote:Wheeler, I'm going to cut you some slack [haha, geddit?]. I agree with you largely. But systemd is such a contentious issue that I imagine it will always be part of discussion here.

I would just encourage you not to make any 'goodbye' threads since one can never be certain that one will not return.
Thank you for the understanding. I'll stick around in the beginners and help sections, but don't expect any wise words and ideological discussions from me on this forum.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#25 Post by bw123 »

Wheelerof4te wrote:
Lysander wrote:Wheeler, I'm going to cut you some slack [haha, geddit?]. I agree with you largely. But systemd is such a contentious issue that I imagine it will always be part of discussion here.

I would just encourage you not to make any 'goodbye' threads since one can never be certain that one will not return.
Thank you for the understanding. I'll stick around in the beginners and help sections, but don't expect any wise words and ideological discussions from me on this forum.
Welcome back Wheelerof4te!!

I like your idealogical crap, even if it is crap. You should give up all them evil pretenders and join with the "debian way" before something really idealogical grabs you.
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Re: DUF is not Debian

#26 Post by steve_v »

Lysander wrote:dasein is sorely missed.
Yup.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#27 Post by bedtime »

I like the icecream metaphor:

Debian is like vanilla icecream; when we have vanilla icecream, we are apt to mention other flavors.

Does that make our love for vanilla icecream any better or worse?

...

Some people act like we should be pledged to a particular distro. That is binding IMO; one should be free to express if one lives by the Linux philosophy.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#28 Post by n_hologram »

I am indebted to dasein for most of my initial success using Debian.
There's also another lovable user who might be more relevant to this thread: el_koraco.

If one plans to leave a forum, one should do so as he did -- with a track record of technical contributions, without making a goodbye thread, and one-time only.

(The user was, notwithstanding his departure, a strong voice in the crunchbang forums.)
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Re: DUF is not Debian

#29 Post by debiman »

n_hologram wrote:If one plans to leave a forum, one should do so as he did -- with a track record of technical contributions, without making a goodbye thread, and one-time only.
touché!
or, as some other user recently put it: sick burn!
:mrgreen:

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#30 Post by golinux »

So what exactly happened to dasein?

He is still registered and it's possible to send him a PM which I did several weeks ago. When he didn't pick it up, I started to poke around and saw this thread (to which I had cluelessly posted).

He was by far one of the best things going for this forum and I'm bummed that there's a possibility that he is really gone, gone and not just taking a break.

If you have any clues why, please do share. Maybe I missed a blowout thread? It does seem that users expected that he was going to leave and some even said goodby . . .
May the FORK be with you!

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#31 Post by Lysander »

golinux wrote:So what exactly happened to dasein?

He is still registered and it's possible to send him a PM which I did several weeks ago. When he didn't pick it up, I started to poke around and saw this thread (to which I had cluelessly posted).

He was by far one of the best things going for this forum and I'm bummed that there's a possibility that he is really gone, gone and not just taking a break.
Yes - he is really gone, gone. He was getting increasingly disillusioned with the quality of posting on this forum. That, combined with his leaving Debian come Wheezy's EOL made his posting here rather futile. He won't be making a return. I have also noticed the decline in the relatively short time I have been here.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#32 Post by dcihon »

Sorry to jump in here but what does this mean:
He was getting increasingly disillusioned with the quality of posting on this forum.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#33 Post by Lysander »

dcihon wrote:Sorry to jump in here but what does this mean:
He was getting increasingly disillusioned with the quality of posting on this forum.
Try 'disappointed', then. And that's putting it mildly.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#34 Post by n_hologram »

If you read through his post hisory, it's evident that he spent a lot of time recently saying the same things over and over again.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#35 Post by bw123 »

n_hologram wrote:If you read through his post hisory, it's evident that he spent a lot of time recently saying the same things over and over again.
A common thing to do when you see the same questions asked over and over again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus
dasein wrote: User statistics Joined: 2011-03-03 21:06 Last visited: - Total posts: 7775 | Search user’s posts (1.28% of all posts / 3.00 posts per day)
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Re: DUF is not Debian

#36 Post by n_hologram »

Lol that was the implication. I'll have to compile his criticisms against wannabe hackers sometime.

His leaving, I suppose, means he is no Sisyphus.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#37 Post by dcihon »

A common thing to do when you see the same questions asked over and over again.
So how would you stop people from posting the same questions over and over again.
I have been accused of this from time to time. I do make my best effort and not trying to do it but it sometimes is going to happen.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#38 Post by n_hologram »

There isn't.

Most rookie/novice users need small amounts of guidance from time to time. However, if a user isn't going to read and research on their own, there's nothing that can stop them from posting their own iteration of a well-documented query.

dasein actually created a substantial thread documenting at least ten or twelve cases where repo-mixing destroyed a system in some way or another. You should not be surprised at how often that thread was linked to other threads based on the same concept.

One of the best ways to help others help themselves is to ignore the thread. However, one can only ignore so many threads before virtually every thread is ignored. In that case, it sounds like time to find a new community.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#39 Post by NFT5 »

dcihon wrote:So how would you stop people from posting the same questions over and over again.
Create a culture where members are encouraged to search for information rather than taking the lazy way out and just asking with the expectation of being spoon fed.

That takes a long time and needs support from both members and Moderators who view and treat the forum as an information resource, a library if you will, where information is kept in a single place. A new thread asking a common question may just get a response of a link to a search and then locked. After a while the other members will do the same thing - reply just with a link and then a Mod comes along later and locks the thread or moves the posts to another where the question has been answered.

Another very useful thing is to create a Forum Directory - a thread (stickied or linked in the forum header) listing all the common questions and links to the threads that cover those. Call it an Index if you like.

Limitation of the ability for new members to create new threads until they have a few posts already. Alternately, require the first few thread creations by new members to be approved by a Moderator (this creates a lot of work for the Mods), or better, a warning when a new member creates a thread that they should search first. This does work, to a degree, but the lazy ones just ignore it anyway.

There are some forums where asking a question commonly asked and answered will earn you an instant banning. This is, IMHO, a bit extreme, but the message does get through and new members are warned, repeatedly, of the consequences. If they really want to be part of the forum then they will comply.

If it's all done the right way then these measures do work. I'm involved with another forum of similar size to this one. It has 536431 posts compared to FDN's 606760, but only 17231 topics compared to 89595 here. Threads tend to be much longer but finding stuff is just so much easier, even with the limitations of the phpBB forum software. There are fewer members there but a much higher percentage of those are active because they value the forum not just as an information resource but as a community. We found that forum activity dropped somewhat as social media, particularly Facebook, grew, but the Groundhog Day nature of Facebook meant that members have come back, appreciating the more permanent nature of the forum format.

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Re: DUF is not Debian

#40 Post by golinux »

NFT5 wrote:
dcihon wrote:So how would you stop people from posting the same questions over and over again.
Create a culture where members are encouraged to search for information rather than taking the lazy way out and just asking with the expectation of being spoon fed.
It used to be that way but that ship has sailed and unlikely to return to port. These days "instant" spoonfeeding is expected by an 'entitled' generation with too many toys and an increasingly third-world education/indoctrination.
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