[SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Help with issues regarding installation of Debian

[SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby dcihon » 2018-04-22 14:30

Ok so what do I mean by this question.
I will probably get a lot of flack on this one.
Here goes.
So coming from a Windows world where when you buy a computer Windows is already installed on it and the user rarely every has to install his operating system and wouldn't know how to if he had to.
This is your basic user knowledge (not knowing how to install an operating system)
Windows users new to Linux specifically Debian (I think) need an easier install process.
So what would I propose?
Answer some basic questions ( IE Use entire disk, set up to be used along other OS on system etc)
By the way I haven't thought of all the possibilities here.
Some other Linux versions built on top of Debian make this process a little easier (Ubuntu , Linux Mint etc)
Why would it be so bad for base Debian to offer such an option.
It might get people to use it more is my thought process.
You could warn the user about non-proprietary packages.
I know I have made similar posts like this one before. But I like to discuss this subject.
I am always being asked by people that have old computers laying around that still have XP on them if there is a way to get use out of their old pc.
I try to point them to linux but Debian would not be my first choice to these people since right out the box they are likely to give up because it is so difficult for them to install.
Ok that is it.
Comments appreciated.
Last edited by dcihon on 2018-04-22 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby 4D696B65 » 2018-04-22 14:40

“My God, even a chicken can install Debian, when you put enough grain on the any-key.”
~ Chicken Boo on Debian

http://mirror.uncyc.org/wiki/Debian
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby bw123 » 2018-04-22 14:42

Because that would suck.
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-04-22 14:51

dcihon wrote:Why would it be so bad for base Debian to offer such an option.
It might get people to use it more is my thought process.
You could warn the user about non-proprietary packages.
I know I have made similar posts like this one before. But I like to discuss this subject.


Everyone can install Debian literally by pressing "Enter" key enough times. Of course, you need to read when prompted for password, or God-forbid, choices of DE. But then again, not everyone can read. Or can they?
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-04-22 14:54

Have you ever actually tried installing Windows, on a PC, ?
It is not exactly easy, that is why they pre-install it. And if you want Sound,Graphics, etc, the drivers don't just come with the basic windows install disk, you have to find them and install them. Usually they are not for free.
If, for what ever reason you do not want to, or can not take the time to learn how to install a OS, there are technicians, and repair shops all over the world where you can take the PC to them and they will install any OS you desire for you.
Debian as well has thought about this:
https://www.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed

By the way I haven't thought of all the possibilities here.

And you have not done any research on this either. Why is there so many windows lovers on this forum anyway ? all ways telling us how they need to make Debian more like windows, but any way, the direction Debian is headed
it is getting to be more and more suited to MS Windows lovers, and less and less suited for those that prefer installing a OS , they way they want it, and not the way some one else decides it should be.
===== edit ========
Wheeler>>Of course, you need to read

Most windows users do not know how to do that, appears that way any way.
I like this one:
from: http://mirror.uncyc.org/wiki/Debian “If you can't use GNU/Debian GNU/Linux, you shouldn't be using GNU/Linux at GNU/all.”
~ RMS on Debian's ease of use.
N5RLX > "Jibber jabber jibber jabber,all day and all night, jibber jabber jibber jabber"

Then there is Papa Parrot
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-04-22 15:06

jibberjabber wrote:it is getting to be more and more suited to MS Windows lovers, and less and less suited for those that prefer installing a OS , they way they want it, and not the way some one else decides it should be.


I don't agree. You still have a choice of installing only CLI environment from where you can add anything you need. Wanna run i3-gaps or awesome wm? Sure, you can. Those who know how to customize their OS will opt for that.
Why then shouldn't new users have an easier time just installing the OS with everything setup OOTB? What's the point of making the install process harder for them? If they want to learn, they will on their own terms and when they are ready.
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby jibberjabber » 2018-04-22 15:13

==== edited, for posted while writing===
I don't agree.

No problem, nobody has to agree on anything.

I have been doing some experimenting with QEMU, for VM , and FreeDos, was easy to install, Debian 7 , was easy to install, Minix 3 was easy to install, then Debian 9 was pretty easy, the one the was the most difficult, ... 3 guesses:
===============
Image
============================
Image
===========================
Image
======
I am working on this for my nephew, he needs to have some windows programs running for his school work, .. We tried installing windows 7 on the laptop, but no sound, and other things, no drivers,.... so installed OpenBsd,
it "just worked", including sound, graphics and all,... so any way the plan is to use QEMU, and set up a VM for windows 7 (that is required for his school), I am waiting on a friend, that does repairs, and has experience with windows 7, also has the drivers ,etc needed, when he make a install DVD for me, I can use it to create my image for the VM, ..... Linux and the BSD,s are easy to install, on hardware or VM, but that god awfull malware created by micro soft, called windows, is a royal pain.
=====
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby bw123 » 2018-04-22 15:49

https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=is+debia ... to+install

first hit

https://www.datamation.com/open-source/ ... stall.html
...the default Debian Installer is a dancing and singing purple plush toy next to a live velociraptor.

...Mention that you have installed it multiple times, and people are apt to look at you as if you are some kind of stone-cold geek.


That's pretty funny, eh?
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby 4D696B65 » 2018-04-22 16:46

From 13 years ago

As the first Debian release to use the new installer, version 3.1, a.k.a. Sarge, goes a long way to detonating the myth that Debian is hard to install.


https://www.linux.com/news/review-debian-31
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Re: Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby dcihon » 2018-04-22 17:14

Ok guys,
Points taken.
I knew I would regret bringing this up and getting slammed for it.
I was hoping to generate some constructive dialog between all of us but I will save that for another topic.
I throw up the white flag. I surrender.
All of your points are correct.
I guess all OS's have their difficulties for the casual user that hardly ever has to install an OS.
But overall with a little reading and some trial and error everyone can be a OS installer expert.
I will call this discussion solved.
Thanks
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Re: [SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby stevepusser » 2018-04-22 20:16

Debian does have the Calamares installer upstream...we were looking at it as one possibilty for MX Linux, but it requires KDE 5 runtime libraries, for some reason.

BTW, how close does the MX installer come to your ideal?
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: GIMP 2.10.4, Pale Moon 27.9.4, wine-staging 3.12, MPC-QT 18.03, Linux kernel 4.17.6, Krita 4.1.1
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Re: [SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby dcihon » 2018-04-22 22:26

I will try it and let you know.
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Re: [SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby stevepusser » 2018-04-22 23:00

dcihon wrote:I will try it and let you know.


I'm pretty sure there's some Youtube videos that demo it if you don't want to download the ISO, too.
The MX Linux repositories: Backports galore! If we don't have something, just ask and we'll try--we like challenges. New packages: GIMP 2.10.4, Pale Moon 27.9.4, wine-staging 3.12, MPC-QT 18.03, Linux kernel 4.17.6, Krita 4.1.1
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Re: [SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby dcihon » 2018-04-22 23:03

No I have been seeing all of your posts and looks like MX is appealing to me to check out.
It's been on my list of things to do.
I will be installing it in a Virtualbox.
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Re: [SOLVED] Has Debian ever considered and easier install

Postby dcihon » 2018-04-23 00:45

Just installed MX.
Yes the install process is about the easiest I have seen.
Debian has to be a little more involved due to picking a DE or WM.
You have also like other distros included some packages to help the user get installed.
Debian is pretty raw at its core and designed to be that way.
I wonder if they could put an installer together that automates some of the process like finding your network cards and installing the proper drivers for them (wired and wireless). If it could detect other hardware you have like video card , printers and install drivers for them.
I guess that would take more of a staff that they don't have.
It sure would get people up and running faster I would think.
How many forum threads are related to getting those packages installed.
I mean if MX can do it and Mint and Ubuntu to name a few can do it you would think Debian could do it.
Oh well here I go again. I know I said this is solved so I will quit.
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