so, it's still moving!As i said i found a workaround, so this is now just a curiosity about what happened and why it worked before
scaaarrryyyy!
so, it's still moving!As i said i found a workaround, so this is now just a curiosity about what happened and why it worked before
The command ismillpond wrote:I believe apt has a utility for displaying package info, not sure about included files ....
Code: Select all
apt-file list [package]
EDIT: See the post below.bester69 wrote:My stable system has:
Ubuntu's kernel 4.4.125 (I always use ubuntu's kernel)
firmware-intel-sound (bpo)
inte-microcode (bpo)
mpv, libav-* (deb-multimedia)
kodi 17.6 (Zesty ubuntu)
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
You, sir or madam, have a post waiting for you in our present administration!n_hologram wrote:bester has never made a ridiculous claim in his/her entire posting history.
i think i seem to remember some older posts where s/he DID cry "Help me! I swear I did NOTHING!", but hard-learned their lesson after our replies (if you do this you are on your own) and stopped posting these sort of threads.pylkko wrote:I think it is wrong/inappropriate to put bester on this list for two reasons 1) he is in his own class entirely 2) he does it deliberately. I mean most people on this list either have no idea what they are doing or think that they can get away with mixing sources from here and there, then not knowing what code they are using from where, they end up tripping themselves and cry. Some of them even then try to cover up their doings so that it is not obvious that they themselves borked it. Bester on the other hand has said from the start that he wants to trip up himself and he for sure as crap does not cover up anything.
That is unavoidable. I have seen newbies post in the Mint forum [yes, Mint!] who, having been told to [quite justifiably] go back to Windows, traverse over to Linux Forums to whinge there.debiman wrote: What worries me is that they might simply take these "Help me!" threads to another forum, knowing full well that here on fdn there's only one possible reaction.
That would depend on your perspective. As per your post "One Year of Debian", you are rather new here. Things really started to go down hill around 2011. Other threads related to the decline are here. It was a huge schism and exodus from this forum. Then systemd further drove away knowledgeable users. This forum is now pretty much an empty shell . . . no offense to the few here doing their best to keep it alive.Lysander wrote:FDN is not as strict as it used to be. This place has a reputation for being rather hardline, strict and occasionally rude, but it has softened in recent months.
I thought this was an insightful takeaway from one of the links you shared:golinux wrote:That would depend on your perspective. As per your post "One Year of Debian", you are rather new here. Things really started to go down hill around 2011. Other threads related to the decline are here. It was a huge schism and exodus from this forum. Then systemd further drove away knowledgeable users. This forum is now pretty much an empty shell . . . no offense to the few here doing their best to keep it alive.
On one hand, the quote summarizes this thread's topic: when one utilizes alien repos in lieu of compiling from source, bad things happen, because each distro makes changes in order to fit their project's particular needs. (edit:) Troll attributes this to "fragmentation," which I've seen defined several different ways; in this context, I think fragmentation can be best defined as "focusing on the specific distribution," and not as "[over]abundant choice." Choice, on the other hand, is the whole point of the Linux philosophy.Troll wrote:...developers are targeting their applications at distros, rather Linux and its libraries...
In addition, it's interesting to note that, six years ago, the issue of "software incompatibility for the sake of the distro" was discussed in great detail, and only now are we realizing its effects. What it leaves out is that 1) source codes are now requiring certain, undesirable software, due to the direction of major distros (eg, xfce and dbus); and 2) some source code can bypass features that distros leave enabled by default (eg, xfce and systemd). Both of those are two sides of the same issue, though: convenience over choice. It is admittedly a pain to compile any desktop environment from source; understandably, most people use something easier -- like a deb.Distros also insist on modifying applications they ship - usually making them incompatible with the original
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
Who can be bothered sitting at a terminal interface digging away at config files every time they want to do something, seriously.. its 2011.
This. After 7 years, a little has changed, and we still have that "do-it-the-hard-way" mindset. Thats why Ubuntu is still the most popular distro, even though it's inferior choice on a technical level than Debian.GUI's were created for user convenience. What would you rather do? Type tar xvf archive.tar /home/user/Desktop/ or *click click click*?
I know what I'd rather do. I have better things to do with my time than sitting at a 1970's terminal interface.
That's probably a good idea, since this thread is about repomixing.Wheelerof4te wrote:I would like to make another thread for this, though.
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
oh, really?Wheelerof4te wrote:^That Troll guy had some good points, even then.Who can be bothered sitting at a terminal interface digging away at config files every time they want to do something, seriously.. its 2011.
This. After 7 years, a little has changed, and we still have that "do-it-the-hard-way" mindset.[/quote]GUI's were created for user convenience. What would you rather do? Type tar xvf archive.tar /home/user/Desktop/ or *click click click*?
I know what I'd rather do. I have better things to do with my time than sitting at a 1970's terminal interface.
Not only that, I seem to be echoing the sentiments of those from many years back who were also rather new here at that time.golinux wrote:That would depend on your perspective. As per your post "One Year of Debian", you are rather new here.
What this shows, more than anything else, is that complaints relating to the decline of forum X are commonplace on the internet. Forums have their heyday, most notably recognisable by quality of information posted, knowledge of posters, rate of post turnover and helpfulness and efficiency of responses. But more than this, what makes any forum great is the extent to which the forum content fulfills that forum's raison d'etre. In my experience, internet forums tend to have what is generally regarded as one - and one only - peak period of indeterminate length after which its decline starts, and subsequently it will be difficult - if ever possible - for a similar state to be reached again.golinux wrote:Things really started to go down hill around 2011. Other threads related to the decline are here. It was a huge schism and exodus from this forum. Then systemd further drove away knowledgeable users. This forum is now pretty much an empty shell . . . no offense to the few here doing their best to keep it alive.
This one is Repo mix-and-match hit paraden_hologram wrote:That's probably a good idea, since this thread is about repomixing.Wheelerof4te wrote:I would like to make another thread for this, though.
dasein wrote:As of the date of this posting, one of the most common questions/problems involves people wanting to, or trying to, install packages across Debian's various releases, or worse, across "Debian-based" distros.
The smartest folks ask first, something along the lines of, "Can I mix Debian Stable with <something else>?"
Answer: This is a very risky thing to attempt, and is generally regarded as a bad idea for all but the most advanced Debian users.
Freedom-hating naysayer(s). What could possibly go wrong?Debian Wiki wrote:Backporting (recompiling and repackaging) is the only safe way to install packages from Debian Sid or Debian Testing on a Debian stable system. Do not install such packages without backporting. Attempting to "mix" releases, especially by updating your sources.list file, is a sure way to break your system. Recovery in these cases usually involves restore from backup.
(Emphasis added)
Et tu, StackExchange?? http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions ... ith-debian
But for the benefit of those who are clever enough to learn from others' mistakes, rather than insisting on repeating them:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=109734
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=111774
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=112395
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=113303
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=117551
Update(s):
Another one bites the dust: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=114861
And another: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=115107
Here's an oldie but a goodie: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=80521
And yet another... http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=115381 (When will folks learn??)
Here's a creative excuse: "Ooops. I 'forgot' not to mix repos.": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=117551
"I installed a package from Ubuntu and it wrecked my system": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=118013#p556389
"I have a critical need for package X, but wanted to run Stable": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=118829
"If only there were information warning people not to do this!!": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120632
A personal favorite: "I'm not smart enough to learn from the mistakes of others. Or my own mistakes, for that matter": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=123786
"Everything worked fine--until it didn't": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 15#p587113
"Wheezy installed TAILS on my system" (Bad Wheezy, no biscuit): http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=127706
"Maybe if I don't admit to mixing repos, no one will be able to figure it out": http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=123923 and also http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=125113 and ALSO http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=125122 and ALSO http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=125149 not to mention http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=125856 plus http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=126017 AND http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=126352 (this last one even includes "what gave it away?" )
Here's a novel approach: bork your system twice in two weeks, all the while swearing up and down you've done nothing to it.
(Call it a hunch, but I don't think the "hope no one notices" strategy is working.)
Most. Epic. Fail. Ever.: "My mix of six different releases (plus two derivative distros) isn't broken. It just keeps mutating!" http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124248
(I may add more as time and happenstance permit. )
And for the curious and intellectually motivated, a decent enough overview of the technical reason why. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.
Addendum: This may also prove helpful: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 17#p543317
Not only forums. In three words. "Sabbe sankhara anicca"Lysander wrote:The reasons for this could be hyposthesised via an unquantifiable combination of causes which include, but are not limited to, new trends; new social/societal attitudes; displacement of interests; changing belief systems and moralities; the superceding of outmoded concepts; lack of novelty; lack of originality; personal/professional commitments and the often uncontrollable influence of other extenuating factors which can change the forum's original focal cause permanently. It doesn't matter if the forum is FDN or 4chan - once some of these factors come into play which immeasurably distort the main cause which the forum was originally set up to support, users will forever lament that forum's better days. For the newer posters these can be counted in months, whereas the longer-acquainted can count them in years.
keithpeter wrote:After reading
https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debi ... ng.en.html
I decided to try unstable (code name sid) on the test laptop. No mixing and matching.
I emphasise that I have a recycled laptop that has been purchased solely for trying out distributions and configurations. The laptop has a separate /home and / partition so reinstalling is easy. I do the full 'jwz backup' thing when I do real work on this machine (not often )
I did a fresh installation using wired connection / stable netinstall, advanced installer tasksel enable base only -> upgrade to testing -> upgrade to unstable to minimise the total download. No point upgrading Gnome desktop packages twice. At that point I cleaned out the sources.list file and I now have...
No 'updates' because Sid is all updates. No 'security' because you are relying on patches from the upstream maintainers, security team do Stable.Code: Select all
keith@moka:~$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ sid main non-free contrib deb-src http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/ sid main non-free contrib
I then installed xorg gm3 and gnome to bring a usable desktop together with laptop-mode-tools and some other stuff.
Issues so far: Some bug alerts around VLC when installing minitube, but is working. At present the eclipse IDE can't be installed from repos so I just used the tar.gz package from eclipse.org. The gnome-flashback-session package results in a desktop session where menus never disappear. Googling tells me that the flashback session has issues with Gnome versions above 3.8, so I've removed flashback and will just wait that one out. Might see what bugs have been logged. There is one package db5.1-util that is currently held back. Leaving a dist-upgrade for a few days while I see what is going on with that. Nautilus would not start on first login. Google suggested that I delete the appropriate config file from my home partition (which dates from Wheezy install) and that solved the problem.
If people don't want to do the sort of 'housekeeping' and research I've outlined above, well, the evidence points to installing Stable doesn't it?
the crunkbong project: scripts, operating system, the list goes on...bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing