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[SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

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jibberjabber
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#21 Post by jibberjabber »

That would make the forum more user friendly, but is it "The Debian way" ?
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Re: Making Debian more user-friendly

#22 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Wheelerof4te wrote:Maybe it's hard for me to understand, I have read Debian's Social Contract and DFSG. I see what it's trying to do, but my perspective is from the user's convenience, not his choice.
I think the piece of the puzzle that you are missing is that Debian is a community distribution: the developers will provide what they think is most important and strive to keep up the quality as best they can and then leave the final polishing to the rest of us :)

For the record MX Linux seems to offer exactly what you want and it is based very closely on Debian stable.
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#23 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:I think the piece of the puzzle that you are missing is that Debian is a community distribution: the developers will provide what they think is most important and strive to keep up the quality as best they can and then leave the final polishing to the rest of us
Yes, everything in Debian comes vanilla, so it's true.
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:For the record MX Linux seems to offer exactly what you want and it is based very closely on Debian stable.
I don't seek something more user-friendly for myself. I can use and modify to my liking plain Debian just fine. This thread was about discussing possible ways of making Debian more user-friendly. With your response, and the fact that Debian isn't designed (by choice) to be as user-friendly as, say Ubuntu, the discussion is closed.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#24 Post by n_hologram »

It may be worth checking out the suckless project. One may not change the debian development ecosystem, but offering an addon/package is a reasonable alternative. In time, it may make it into debian mainstream.

It may also be worthwhile to create a list of specific changes you think would benefit newbs and research ways to implement them, or going on newb-oriented communities to poll for new ideas. Data is useful.
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#25 Post by bw123 »

Debian has been very friendly to me. I like the way it works, especially the policies about non-free, firmware, and not loading the boat with crap I don't want by default (for the most part). I never had to worry about a virus, crazy pkgs adding 5 toolbars to my browsers, or them trying to put small software developers out of business.

I like to set it up about every two years, and pretty much leave it alone, it does fine with that. Gives me a chance to sit back and read threads from the trailblazers who rush into every new fad they can find and then ask for help why it doesn't work.

I never used another linux distro, so I can't compare how friendly they are, but one complaint I have is documentation can always be a little better. There should be a way to completely destroy incorrect/obsolete documentation in the wild...
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#26 Post by Nili »

I like non-friendly Debian, the opposite I like NETINST because of DIY ethic. If it didn't give me this opportunity, I would have been somewhere else now.

Don't like Linux or Debian to look like a Windows or OSX clone.
Each to their own even for this case :)
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#27 Post by spacex »

There are lots of user-friendly linux distros, included derivatives of Debian, and remixes of Debian. Debian itself, is all about choices and options. For people who customize their own system. For people who want to be in charge themselves. So in my opinion, if anyone asks about user-friendly, then just tell them to go somewhere else, to a distro or OS that strips them of the difficulty in making choices for themselves. People who just want to use some generic thing someone else has made. That's all fine and dandy. But Debian isn't for those who just want something to surf the web with, or to check their social media. They can go elsewhere.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#28 Post by sunrat »

spacex wrote: But Debian isn't for those who just want something to surf the web with, or to check their social media. They can go elsewhere.
I surf the web and check social media. Debian doen't tell me I can't do those things.
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#29 Post by spacex »

sunrat wrote:
spacex wrote: But Debian isn't for those who just want something to surf the web with, or to check their social media. They can go elsewhere.
I surf the web and check social media. Debian doen't tell me I can't do those things.
You know what i mean. I do also surf the web and I do spend quite a bit of time on social media. But if that's all you want to do, and you aren't interested in customizing your own system, or the technical aspect, then there are many other options that are more suitable. A chromebook does that just fine, an android tablet or a windows-pc or a mac/ipad. You can even manage with a smartphone :D And of course lots of friendly linux-alternatives. I'm not against easy, but if every distro went in that direction, most of them would be redundant. There are lots of Debian-derivatives that aims to bring Debian to regular people without technical skills or knowledge.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#30 Post by sunrat »

spacex wrote:
sunrat wrote:
spacex wrote: But Debian isn't for those who just want something to surf the web with, or to check their social media. They can go elsewhere.
I surf the web and check social media. Debian doen't tell me I can't do those things.
You know what i mean.
Yeah I know what you mean. And you know I know you know what you mean. Just stirring. :mrgreen:
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#31 Post by jibberjabber »

Even though this topic is marked solved, it seems a few members still want to make comments, so any way, decided to join in here,
First off:
Postby Wheelerof4te » 2018-04-27 18:43
Inspired by this old post and the recent update on Buster's release status, I would like to re-visit this topic. We are currently in 27th of April, 2018th. Ubuntu 18.04 has just been released, and it's looking more user-friendly than ever.
Then maybe the OP should be using Ubuntu ?
I saw in the thread, "user friendly", and someone said:
""user-friendly" is one of those words i can never write without quotes."
it's just wrong.".... Not just wrong, but it is just a opinion.
For example, in my opinion (not worth much), but any way, Ubuntu is not at all "user" or "admin" friendly, 2nd compared with MS windows, that has to be the most user unfriendly system I have ever tried to use, and it is even more of a nightmare to administer and install. Linux Mint, takes 3rd place, or ties with
Ubuntu, as far as user unfriendly, Another very admin unfriendly system is CentOS, all though once the system administrator gets through the install, it is possible to configure it so that it is relatively user friendly for the end user.
Most "end users" or users are not qualified to be installing any Operating System, I don't care if it is MS windows, Ubuntu, Liunx Mint, or what ever.
Debian can be installed and setup to be very easy to use, so that it is a extremely "user freindly", how ever it is not something just anybody can do, the person installing it should be capable of installing and administrating the OS, other wise they are going to set up what could be a very "user unfriendly" system.
So with all that said, if the OP or anyone else feels Debian is to complicated for the to install and setup, and they are unable to set up a "user friendly" system
then they should use what ever is easier for them, or find a qualified technician
to install and set up the system.
Setting up a "user friendly" system also depends on who the "user" or "users" will be, for example in a office situation, and the secretaries are the main users, all you really need to do is give them a menu, with the options to use the programs they need to use, you can even configure the Debian system to look and feel like windows, if that will keep the secretaries (end users) happy....
Then recently I read somewhere here on this forum, a link to some article about MS windows now including Linux and even Debian, if one chooses, I don't know how true that is, nor exactly how they work that, don't care really, I guess it is some kind of Virtual environment or something, but heck, If your end users must have certain programs that can only be run on Windows, it is not that hard to set up a Virtual Machine, and have Windows as a guest system, one could even include starting the VM in the menu options they give the users. Example: "Start-windows",... the user just selects and "clicks" it, and the windows guest starts up,...
My granddaughter , now almost 7, thinks Debian is very user friendly, and it is , for her, the desk top has all her "icons", all she has to do is click the one she wants, it could be a game, or if she wants FaceBook, there is a icon for that, the browser (Fire fox-esr), she just clicks the icon,...nothing complicated.
The point is , Debian can be as "user friendly" as the system admin wants to make it,...
And if you are not qualified to install and set up a "user freindly' system, then don't, find someone qualified to do that for you, or take the time to read and study, and then you can install and setup what ever OS you want, and you can make it as user friendly as you need.
The Debian developers give you a good OS, but how can they possibly decide
what setup and configuration will be best for the "users", this is something the system admin needs to do, according to the "users" needs and limitations.
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#32 Post by n_hologram »

jibberjabber wrote: My granddaughter , now almost 7, thinks Debian is very user friendly, and it is , for her, the desk top has all her "icons", all she has to do is click the one she wants, it could be a game, or if she wants FaceBook, there is a icon for that, the browser (Fire fox-esr), she just clicks the icon,...nothing complicated.
I love it. Reminds me of when I was three and had to show my dad how to boot into Windows 3.1 through DOS XD
Now we have examples of actual children who could manage a desktop and command line.
With that, I'll digress. 8)
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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#33 Post by Wheelerof4te »

jibberjabber wrote:So with all that said, if the OP or anyone else feels Debian is to complicated for the to install and setup, and they are unable to set up a "user friendly" system
then they should use what ever is easier for them, or find a qualified technician
to install and set up the system.
Wheelerof4te wrote:I don't seek something more user-friendly for myself. I can use and modify to my liking plain Debian just fine.
Another one of those posters who doesn't read the thread, but likes to write anything. Plus says that Ubuntu isn't user-friendly...As @debiman said, Debian isn't user friendly, it's user-centric. It does not try to be user friendly. Howewer, Ubuntu, Mint and the like are very easy for newcomers, that's why they are...user-friendly.
I have marked this thread solved. So, if you have something to add, please read the entire thread first.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#34 Post by edbarx »

Not even walking on two legs is "user-friendly" as toddlers make several attempts before they succeed. At first, they are also very unsteady until their brain learns how to handle the multitude of muscles involved in walking upright and standing upright.

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Re: Making Debian more user-friendly

#35 Post by debiandonder »

Bulkley wrote:Debian is not supposed to be user-friendly. What it does is provide basic infrastructure that can be built upon while sticking to principles. Users can take Debian's infrastructure and adapt it as they wish. Take a look at this old chart. About 40% of the chart is taken up with Debian based derivatives. I call that success. (Yes, the chart needs to be updated.)
I would say Debian is more work than Ubuntu, but I have read a lot of articles about Ubuntu 18.04 having more trouble with stability and the upgrade process.

I just installed a Debian 9 based distro because of the small ISO size of some 334 MB.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#36 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Someone call Kel'Thuzad. And bring in meat wagons, too.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#37 Post by debiandonder »

Wheelerof4te wrote:Someone call Kel'Thuzad. And bring in meat wagons, too.
You live in a world of your own?

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#38 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Someone missed the necro joke.
Anyway, this is marked solved now, so whatever.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#39 Post by debiandonder »

Wheelerof4te wrote:Someone missed the necro joke.
Anyway, this is marked solved now, so whatever.
Now I'm going insane! I though this forum was about Debian support and not about death rap or monster cartoons.

I am clearly at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Oh yeah, the problem is solved about making Debian more user friendly, it's called Manjaro.

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Re: [SOLVED]Making Debian more user-friendly

#40 Post by sunrat »

Image
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
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