I really just dropped in to say:
llewellen wrote:One of the things that is very off-putting, not to say offensive, about some members of some Linux communities is their prickly, arrogant defensiveness.
This^.
I grok the need to maintain SNR, but what I see here is not that. It's established forum members acting like prigs in response to a fair question, and that's depressing.
Wheelerof4te wrote:warned you...
troll...
you really are a troll...
The only trolls in this thread are you and Gary, and he has the good grace to admit it.
Thankfully there are still adults to be found on FDN, as the constructive discussion later in the thread illustrates. Shame the OP was chased off by the local systemd fanboys first.
This hyper-defensive bullshit from a select few, every time anyone mentions the s-word, it's one of the reasons I'm not around much these days.
bdtc1 wrote:How hard would it have been to have Debian be init agnostic
If you don't care about a full-featured GNOME desktop, not particularly difficult. It's just a matter of manpower, rebuilding all those packages needlessly linked against systemd and packaging replacements for it's session-management functionality.
Then just drop in your init system of choice. All the other viable non-systemd implementations are readily interchangeable, because they are
just init systems.
Devuan did it, Debian could too. I don't have the knowledge or the inclination for in-depth speculation on the reasons for Debian being so entangled with systemd, but I suspect supporting GNOME as a default desktop was a major factor.
golinux wrote:I never get tired of posting or reading that
Dasein's posts are always good reading, and that one should be mandatory for anyone curious about the systemd situation.
FWIW, I recently migrated my last "true" Debian machine to Devuan ASCII. It's at least as nice as Stretch, and that's quite nice.
Now that Devuan isn't miles behind Debian release-wise, it's an excellent choice for those wanting the best of both.
bdtc1 wrote:How is the reality?
From a user-perspective, very real and very usable. I haven't encountered any missing functionality in ASCII at all.
I run Gentoo (openrc) on my desktop, and I don't see anything missing there either. IMO, openrc is far nicer to work with than either sysv or systemd.
The rest is above my pay-grade. Not because I couldn't learn to do it (I did rebuild some stuff while waiting for ASCII), but because I have insufficient time and love of Debian to do so.
If Debian must remain wedded to systemd, I'll just run something else. I'm lazy like that.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.