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Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

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VA1DER
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#21 Post by VA1DER »

stevepusser wrote:Timeshift 18.9 Jessie and Stretch backports: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... /timeshift
Hi Steve. Thanks for making that. This will be very useful for me upgrading a server. I'm wondering if there is a location where this can be obtained that doesn't require a login to obtain? Even with KeePass the number of logins I have to maintain for one-shot downloads is becoming appalling. Why they enforce logins for downloads is beyond me, but that's outside this discussion.

Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread. If we want novices not to do that sort of behaviour, perhaps we shouldn't encourage it here. We can't hold novices to the standard of being able to discern good advice from bad advice, so we need to hold them to the standard of best practices. And if installing random packages from unofficial sources is, as is suggested here and which I agree with, not a best practice for a novice, then what do we need to do to get Timeshift 18.9 in as an official backport to Jessie and Stretch? This so that it can be suggested to other novices without asking them to violate best practices.

Bulkley
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#22 Post by Bulkley »

VA1DER, Your comment has some validity. The way I see it is that we want users to start with clean systems. Eventually everyone tweaks a system. What leads to trouble is tweaking without knowing where the gold standard is. What is even worse is adding a repository to the sources list in order to get a particular package and then leaving it open. Over a year or two there's no telling how much stray stuff comes in with each routine update.

This is Linux. We have access to the source code and can do anything. What is required is knowledge. Without it, tweaking just makes a mess.

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Scorpion
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#23 Post by Scorpion »

VA1DER wrote:Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread
I didn' t think about that :)
I used github anyway https://github.com/teejee2008/timeshift on one pc I built it and on another I installed the generic linux 64 bit.

xepan
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#24 Post by xepan »

VA1DER wrote:
stevepusser wrote: ....

Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread. If we want novices not to do that sort of behaviour, perhaps we shouldn't encourage it here. We can't hold novices to the standard of being able to discern good advice from bad advice, so we need to hold them to the standard of best practices. And if installing random packages from unofficial sources is, as is suggested here and which I agree with, not a best practice for a novice, then what do we need to do to get Timeshift 18.9 in as an official backport to Jessie and Stretch? This so that it can be suggested to other novices without asking them to violate best practices.
While this makes sense, one thing is not said:
stevepussser is not "a random source". He is very well known at this place (at other places like MX and antix too, perhaps even more), and has what you could call "quite a reputation". And that for years, probably rather decades.
I for one sure would trust packages build by him more than packages build by me (which is the general advise: backport it yourself, after quite some consideration if you really need it that hard, but in general stick to what you will find in the default repos).
How would a novice notice that? Now that is a deep question ...
I got no answer.

on a sidenote.

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stevepusser
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#25 Post by stevepusser »

VA1DER wrote:
stevepusser wrote:Timeshift 18.9 Jessie and Stretch backports: https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... /timeshift
Hi Steve. Thanks for making that. This will be very useful for me upgrading a server. I'm wondering if there is a location where this can be obtained that doesn't require a login to obtain? Even with KeePass the number of logins I have to maintain for one-shot downloads is becoming appalling. Why they enforce logins for downloads is beyond me, but that's outside this discussion.

Not to be too critical, but I find it mildly ironic that Scorpion's feet were being held to the fire for installing "random" stuff from "random" web sites and then one of the solutions that was proposed for the future is that he install a random version of Timeshift from an unofficial location following instructions in a random forum thread. If we want novices not to do that sort of behaviour, perhaps we shouldn't encourage it here. We can't hold novices to the standard of being able to discern good advice from bad advice, so we need to hold them to the standard of best practices. And if installing random packages from unofficial sources is, as is suggested here and which I agree with, not a best practice for a novice, then what do we need to do to get Timeshift 18.9 in as an official backport to Jessie and Stretch? This so that it can be suggested to other novices without asking them to violate best practices.
You make some good points, but I guess you have to go by reputation and past performance. Ubuntu PPAs...not so good on Debian. Me: pretty good with backports in the past on this forum, and am the lead backporter/packager for the highly rated and ranked (at least at Distrowatch) MX Linux.

But the way to get Timeshift 18.9 into stretch-backports would be to request it on the backports mailing list, then hope someone picks it up.

You also don't need a login to get the Timeshift package from the OBS if you choose to "grab the binary package directly" instead of following the directions to add the repo from the "Download Package" link. Since Timeshift is a single-deb program and doesn't require any dependencies not in the standard Stretch repo, it should be easy to install on a Stretch system with standard methods.

Edit: You could also backport Timeshift yourself on the OBS from the Debian sources; you might find it actually interesting, and it's not that difficult! Here's a guide I wrote: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=130057
MX Linux packager and developer

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VA1DER
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#26 Post by VA1DER »

stevepusser wrote:You make some good points, but I guess you have to go by reputation and past performance. Ubuntu PPAs...not so good on Debian. Me: pretty good with backports in the past on this forum, and am the lead backporter/packager for the highly rated and ranked (at least at Distrowatch) MX Linux.
I have no issue with your backports. My suggestion isn't that there is any issue at all with your work, or that you are untrustworthy in any way. I've seen your work and many of your posts before. "Random" in the context I used it is simply from a novice's perspective. For someone who has little exposure to the community it's just one more voice saying it's ok, this package is good it won't hurt your system at all. Then when it works as advertised, the novice then trusts another out-of-channel package or package source... anyway, point made.
stevepusser wrote:But the way to get Timeshift 18.9 into stretch-backports would be to request it on the backports mailing list, then hope someone picks it up.
I'll go ahead and do this and see how it goes. Officially supporting this as a backport is useful, especially since Jessie is EoL and it's a useful tool to put out there for those wanting to upgrade. This is what pricked up my ears in this thread (and apologies to Scorpion for somewhat hijacking this thread since I can't offer any more assistance than has been given for the original problem).
stevepusser wrote:You also don't need a login to ... "grab the binary package directly"
I actually wanted the source to look at your backport, but the guide you wrote and pointed me to should do nicely. Thanks very kindly for that. I need to make a backport for OpenSSL 1.1.1a for Jessie.

Actually, with respect to the original issue, would it be worth booting off media and chroot-ing into the system to try and revert it, or is it likely too messy? I've had success with that technique myself after a bad upgrade.

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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#27 Post by stevepusser »

You can actually get into OBS repos to get the sources without logging in with two mouse clicks--think of it as a point & click game! But here's a shortcut to Timeshift's: https://download.opensuse.org/repositor ... ebian_9.0/

I don't have a clue about chrooting to fix your problem, though...
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Scorpion
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Re: Unwated upgrade to buster/sid

#28 Post by Scorpion »

I reinstalled the system since I did not have many things on that pc.
I don' t know why now I cannot use anymore bootable usb to install systems on that pc.

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