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Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

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zimbodel
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Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#1 Post by zimbodel »

Solved: Using following link. Seemingly a Debian Bug.
"https://www.nixcraft.com/t/solved-cron- ... linux/1858"

Original messgae
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The last few debian versions started ping-ponging with very serious basic services that I relied on for decade+

1) It seems that control Alt F1-9 is now abolished.
All of them I cant even get one terminal.
Sheesh !!! now if I have an X problem and get a hung login screen I cant even control+alt+F1 to a terminal and quickly fix the mess. I guess now I have to boot into rescue mode and have no realtime problem resolution anymore.
This is really braindead not to support this anymore. In stretch it is not working and neither did it on some previous Debian versions during vanilla install.
Really painful...it is like silently abolishing Cron (which would be irresponsible).
Are you guys going to abolish it now finally or what is the plan ?

2) rc.local doesnt work anymore although it is included in /etc. It has been pingponging working/notworking between distributions.
The previous distribution started to leave out chmod +x on default which made it not execute. Even that now doesnt help anymore.
Are you guys going to at least have an executable rc.local in future versions or does boring but brick-stable BSD become more attractive to me again.

3) There is also on/off support for @reboot in cron.
I write cron scripts and then they dont work when upgrading to a newer debion version.
Why the backwards compatibilty issues with such a mission critical application?
Are you guys going to abolish it now finally or what is the plan ? as I now have to keep different scripts for different Debian versions.
Last edited by zimbodel on 2019-01-28 19:56, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#2 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

zimbodel wrote:It seems that control Alt F1-9 is now abolished
Nope, works fine for me.

If you're using `startx` from a console login then you may be running X on tty1 (I am) so try <Ctrl>+<Alt>+F2 instead.
zimbodel wrote:rc.local doesnt work anymore

Code: Select all

# systemctl enable rc-local.service
Perhaps?

Or just learn to write unit files, they are *much* easier than init scripts and they don't rely on buggy, bloated bash, which is nice.
zimbodel wrote:There is also on/off support for @reboot in cron.
I write cron scripts and then they dont work when upgrading to a newer debion version.
Why the backwards compatibilty issues with such a mission critical application?
Pass on this one, I prefer systemd .timer units :D
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zimbodel
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#3 Post by zimbodel »

" Head_on_a_Stick wrote
Nope, works fine for me.
If you're using `startx` from a console login then you may be running X on tty1 (I am) so try <Ctrl>+<Alt>+F2 instead.
"
None of F1-9 works.
Read my initial post.

" Head_on_a_Stick wrote
Or just learn to write unit files, they are *much* easier than init scripts and they don't rely on buggy, bloated bash, which is nice."

Not acceptable. If rc.local is present in /etc in the distribution then it should be usable else it is misleading the user.
If it is not supported anymore, remove it.
Last edited by zimbodel on 2019-01-12 20:29, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#4 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

zimbodel wrote:None of F1-9 works.
Can we please see

Code: Select all

systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p
Thanks!
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#5 Post by dilberts_left_nut »

zimbodel wrote:3) There is also on/off support for @reboot in cron.
This works fine for me.

What have you done to your Debian?
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#6 Post by bw123 »

rc.local has never been a good thing. I agree get rid of it.
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#7 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

zimbodel wrote:Not acceptable
You do know there are no Debian developers here, right?

I know that I couldn't give a flying crap about what you consider to be acceptable, nor do I care which operating system you use :mrgreen:
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#8 Post by zimbodel »

Is it also now standard on all default Debian window managers that the
Control+ALT+F1-9 keys are now just nonchalantly switching virtual desktops and not give me a single virtual terminal as it used to do for ages.
This is crucial as I run critical scripts I need to monitor in those so that they are not in the xsession

This decision makes zero sense.

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#9 Post by bw123 »

zimbodel wrote:Is it also now standard on all default Debian window managers that the
Control+ALT+F1-9 keys are now just nonchalantly switching virtual desktops and not give me a single virtual terminal as it used to do for ages.
This is crucual as I run critical scripts I need to monitor in those so that they are not in the xsession

This decision makes zero sense.
How can there be "all default Debian window managers" ? that makes no sense

Do you mean gnome removed the key combo to get to a tty? At least on fluxbox and kde plasma, the ctrl-alt+F keys still work.
Last edited by bw123 on 2019-01-12 20:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#10 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

zimbodel wrote:Is it also now standard on all default Debian window managers that the
Control+ALT+F1-9 keys are now just nonchalantly switching virtual desktops and not give me a single virtual terminal as it used to do for ages.
Which window manager are you using?

The switching works for me with dwm, openbox & bspwm.
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#11 Post by bw123 »

ping? pong?
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zimbodel
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#12 Post by zimbodel »

Then dont give a crap and ignore the post.
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
zimbodel wrote:Not acceptable
You do know there are no Debian developers here, right?
I know that I couldn't give a flying crap about what you consider to be acceptable, nor do I care which operating system you use :mrgreen:
As to your reequeest.
$ sudo systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p
Failed to get properties: No such interface ''

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#13 Post by zimbodel »

That is fine, but if it is included in the distro it must work, not be abolished and ping pong working on and off with every other debian distribution.
bw123 wrote:rc.local has never been a good thing. I agree get rid of it.
Last edited by zimbodel on 2019-01-12 20:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#14 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

zimbodel wrote:$ sudo systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p
Failed to get properties: No such interface ''
OK, that's not normal.

How about

Code: Select all

cat /proc/1/comm
Oh, and don't run commands as root unless specifically instructed to do so, that is a dangerous habit.
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zimbodel
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#15 Post by zimbodel »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
zimbodel wrote:$ sudo systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p
How about

Code: Select all

cat /proc/1/comm
Oh, and don't run commands as root unless specifically instructed to do so, that is a dangerous habit.
I will run my systems any way I want. I have been doing so for more than 20 years with no issue.
Maybe some children should not be allowed in the sandbox and needs a safe space.

So the advice really applies to you.
Enjoy your deserved safespace. (try sudo first)

To your blerp.
# cat /proc/1/comm
init

which is the wrong place to look.
Last edited by zimbodel on 2019-01-12 20:53, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#16 Post by bw123 »

# cat /proc/1/comm
init
so you're not using logind, and complaining that you can't get to a login?
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#17 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

zimbodel wrote:

Code: Select all

# cat /proc/1/comm
init
How have you configured your system to boot without systemd?

Here's what a working Debian system should look like:

Code: Select all

empty@shinken:~ $ cat /proc/1/comm
systemd
empty@shinken:~ $ systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p                                        
● getty@tty2.service - Getty on tty2
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
   Active: active (running) since Sat 2019-01-12 20:58:48 GMT; 35min ago
     Docs: man:agetty(8)
           man:systemd-getty-generator(8)
           http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/serial-console.html
 Main PID: 8613 (agetty)
    Tasks: 1 (limit: 4915)
   CGroup: /system.slice/system-getty.slice/getty@tty2.service
           └─8613 /sbin/agetty --noclear tty2 linux
empty@shinken:~ $
<Ctrl>+<Alt>+F2 works fine here :)
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#18 Post by GarryRicketson »

Ctrl>+<Alt>+F2 works fine here :) Same here, works fine for me

zimbodel wrote:Then dont give a crap and ignore the post.
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
zimbodel wrote:Not acceptable
You do know there are no Debian developers here, right?
I know that I couldn't give a flying crap about what you consider to be acceptable, nor do I care which operating system you use :mrgreen:
As to your reequeest.
$ sudo systemctl status getty@tty2.service --no-p
Failed to get properties: No such interface ''
just click YES

When a OS makes so many changes, that I no longer can manage or administer the system , rather then wasting every bodies time, being rude, whining and crying, demanding the other users do something, the simple ,easy solution, find another OS that is more to my liking.
zimbodel:>>I will run my systems any way I want. I have been doing so for more than 20 years with no issue.
Maybe some children should not be allowed in the sandbox and needs a safe space.

So the advice really applies to you.
Enjoy your deserved safespace. (try sudo first)
Yea, right, look at what running it the way you want has gotten you, it is broken and you don't know what to do.
If this clown is not willing to follow the advice they are asking for, that is fine , run your system the way you want, and don't waste everyone's time asking for advice and answers you refuse to follow.
Image
just click YES

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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#19 Post by llivv »

zimbodel wrote:The last few debian versions started ping-ponging with very serious basic services that I relied on for decade+

1) It seems that control Alt F1-9 is now abolished.
All of them I cant even get one terminal.
Sheesh !!! now if I have an X problem and get a hung login screen I cant even control+alt+F1 to a terminal and quickly fix the mess. I guess now I have to boot into rescue mode and have no realtime problem resolution anymore.
This is really braindead not to support this anymore. In stretch it is not working and neither did it on some previous Debian versions during vanilla install.
Really painful...it is like silently abolishing Cron (which would be irresponsible).
Are you guys going to abolish it now finally or what is the plan ?

2) rc.local doesnt work anymore although it is included in /etc. It has been pingponging working/notworking between distributions.
The previous distribution started to leave out chmod +x on default which made it not execute. Even that now doesnt help anymore.
Are you guys going to at least have an executable rc.local in future versions or does boring but brick-stable BSD become more attractive to me again.

3) There is also on/off support for @reboot in cron.
I write cron scripts and then they dont work when upgrading to a newer debion version.
Why the backwards compatibilty issues with such a mission critical application?
Are you guys going to abolish it now finally or what is the plan ? as I now have to keep different scripts for different Debian versions.
There aren't many left in this forum running init.
If using stable-stretch, old stable-jessie they are, in my opinion the Most init unfriendly releases.
If going back to wheezy is an option it still functions well for most of the issues mentioned, but custom scripts is not one of them IIRC. (see dependency based boot ) https://wiki.debian.org/LSBInitScripts/ ... yBasedBoot these issues started a long time ago IIRC flip flopping between how it should be implemented, confusing almost everyone including me. should debian support ubuntu using startpar or should debian use one of the other two possible solutions. It looks like debain now uses startpar and insserv and I don't even know the difference or why they both get installed. I think they both effect how init scripts are processed. And I'm not sure if the issue came from upstream, red hat or ubuntu, but I do remember Ubuntu making a big stink about how debian should proceed. Along with other SJW stuff in the forums.

Anyways, Sid is your other option. It works OK using init, but it is in no way shape or form easy to maintain in a systemdless state. It takes constant care and a knowledgeable user/admin to keep it chuggin along. And you have to be able to fix any borked issues as there is no body left in this forum to help with it...-
maybe one or two that keep a Low profile or get the same kind of treatment you are getting in this thread. But that is the Debian way of old. And should be nothing new to you, as it appears to me it is not...
Besides those issues their is the other Big one and it's exactly what you are describing in this thread.
To run init in Debian since Jessie is very restrictive in the package selection area.
Anyone running init has to know before hand what will work with init and what will not work on the now none supported Debian system. Gnome is out completely so is KDE XFCE might run without too much mangling The lightest WM that fits needs is all you can hope for.

X in Sid is still OK but it also is weird at times and especially so when compared to how stable it was back in wheezy days.
With thing like wayland, weston, vulkan, as well as kernel xserver interactions via modesetting, etc it not getting any easier to keep unix backwards compatible.
Things are changing fast these days and what I have posted here could change in a year a month or a day from now.
In memory of Ian Ashley Murdock (1973 - 2015) founder of the Debian project.

zimbodel
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Re: Debian Pains, Ping Pong support

#20 Post by zimbodel »

lliv, thank you for the status report on debian. It is useful information.
I have too many servers to convert and need to run init for quite some time as the scripts and cronjobs are extensive.
You advice is valuable thanks.

I followed the advice I found at Nixcraft and it solved my problem
"https://www.nixcraft.com/t/solved-cron- ... linux/1858"

Debian ships from distribution to distribution with both anacron and cron running as daemons.
It is not entirely repeatable it sems as the anacron antagonist is seemingly started with gnome-scheduler etc resulting in @reboot and /etc/rc.local to fail at boot using cron.

This was the case on my clean Debian stretch install and the advice from NIXCRAFT solved it.
My cronjobs and /etc/rc.local entries are working great in Debian Stretch as expected now.

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