Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

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Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-02-20 22:28

I wonder about this, often problems are difficult to solve, and even more so when someone is running a non standard system, and all the standard solutions do not work, but when ever they are asked to give more details about the system,etc,...instead of providing them, they almost all ways give up , and bail out,.. any body know ?
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby bw123 » 2019-02-20 22:58

been through this many time...
https://duckduckgo.com/html/?q=forum+troll
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-social_behaviour

One clue is how many posts made recently? Like for instance in the last five days are there numerous posts where there just seems to be no solution? This is forum disruption, we have discussed this before. These posts IMO are spam, and should be treated as such, or closed, with links attached to appropriate solutions.
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby ruffwoof » 2019-02-20 23:29

Sign of the times, spoon fed, instant gratification and even then more often move onto something else very quic...
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby sunrat » 2019-02-21 01:35

ruffwoof wrote:Sign of the times, spoon fed, instant gratification and even then more often move onto something else very quic...

Haha, very subtly amusin... :lol:

I've seen a few lately where the OP gets angry but then admits they haven't even tried a solution offered which is most likely to work. Or doesn't admit it. :roll:
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby NFT5 » 2019-02-21 03:42

GarryRicketson wrote: they almost all ways give up , and bail out,.. any body know ?


Not definitively, but I have a few ideas:

1. The time for handing in the assignment is up and they've winged it or bribed someone else to give them the answer. I think that this is much more common than we realise - just looking at some of the strange things people want to do.

2.
ruffwoof wrote:Sign of the times, spoon fed, instant gratification and even then more often move onto something else very quic...

:lol: but again I think that this is a fairly major contributor. Why ask on a forum when you can post on Facebook and get hundreds of replies - most wrong, but who cares, especially if they come with liks.

3. Following on from 2, above, is a lack of understanding of forum etiquette. There are no "How to ask a question" threads on FB. All it then takes is one of the regulars to be a little testy in their response and OP retires in tears, often to go somewhere else and complain about the harsh treatment here.

4. Trolling? Nah, I really don't think so. I've come to accept that some people are just dumb.

5. Moving on from Garry's question, does hanging around guarantee a better response? Dunno, I've been here over 4 years and I'm still waiting for clear answers to at least two questions that I asked. :P
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby sunrat » 2019-02-21 04:01

Don't worry, FDN is not alone. I saved these posts from KX Studio forum where the answer to an angry OP is brilliant. I used KX myself for some time and had none of the problems mentioned.
why is KXstudio is broken

Postby offgrid » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:54 am
Angry guy rant,
i downloaded kxstudio_14.04.5_64bit.iso. checked out as good md5sum
Built usb installer worked out, install was a bit weird. had and open slot on my drive 117 gig ext4 wide open, it got confused.
reboot format gparted 117 to fat32. and restarted install.
second attempt it decides it going to split drive in two???????????. wont take a simple leap.
so i goes with it. 60/50 something split and go.
installs fine boots fine.
run dist-upgrade locks up on Ardour 5.12. so rerun with package installer after fix errors and clear Ardour upgrade. runs fine.
start Lmms VeSTige not loading VST. WTF
MusE Crashes 99% on start WTF
installed Wine WTF
got VST loading in lmms ,, search google broke since 2012 WTF
99 percent of all my problem with KXstudio have been around since 2008. WTF WTF.
I read a webpage KXstudio is the best bowl of chocolate pudding. just install and it works. Bowl of shit wore likley.
this is my second full reinstall removed Muse and installed MusE3 got it booting ok no errors in Jac logs a few in terminal with a few vst errors but starts and runns i thing havnt started ny projects.
BUT this LMMS not getting things going with wine the second time around is pissing me off.
uninstalled wine ,,package installer installs some other carla notsure packages
Carla assertion failure: "kEngine->isRunning()" in file CarlaEngineThread.cpp, line 45
when loading Muse3 figures WTF but still starts.

whats the worst it is a broken distribution.
i want everything advertised, i get broke this and broke that and help files and web page that elude to nothing in particular about fixing things that shouldn’t be missing or not working in a distribution.
a distribution should not have any missing parts or at least a list of those missing dependencies listed somewhere. Maybe RIGHT ON the front page .
maybe a do this first before starting any apps or you will break the distro.
or a fix distro patch.
How do we get Linux out there when most packages break as soon as you install it.
Iv installed Ubuntu worked fine but not happy with it, Linux mint got 18.1 on the other partition a copy of 18.3 there as well for new installs on windows fuckups. im trying here to install a system to run a music studio for my 13 year old daughter. she likes lmms muse ardour and audacity
was supposed to take a few hours been a week now and its still fucked up.

is there a place for a new install of KXstudio step by step instructional web page on getting all packages and dependencies met so it works as advertised. or should i just wait till 2020.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Re: why is KXstudio is broken

Postby khz » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:15 am
:welcome: I think you've come to the right place.
Computers and code can be complex.
There are nice people here who answer nice questions.

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Re: why is KXstudio is broken

Postby rghvdberg » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:53 am

LOL
Best answer ever.
Top
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Postby khz » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:39 am
THX :-)
:freedom:
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-02-21 04:54

5. Moving on from Garry's question, does hanging around guarantee a better response? Dunno, I've been here over 4 years and I'm still waiting for clear answers to at least two questions that I asked. :P

Hmm, we would need to see those 2 questions again, Do you remember where you posted them ? Can you post a link to them, ?
Just hanging around, no, it won't guarantee a better response, but bumping the posts, if you still are looking for a better , or more clear answer, don't get excessive with bumping it, but old posts/questions do get burred under the new stuff, and unless someone, you or somebody else, posts, add something new, no one notices them. Even if it just a "I am still looking for a more clear answer", still there is no guarantee, maybe there is no set/clear simple answer, or nobody knows one, .....
I will admit, one reason to give up could be because the person realizes the problem is more complex then they realized, and even with the details requested, there will not be any new solutions, thinking about it, I have had things I wanted to fix or solve, but when I realized I couldn't figure it out, and nothing in my searches did me any good, well, I was going to ask, but knowing that to help me, clear details would be needed, to get clear answers, and when I started trying to get the details that seemed relevant, and also how to best word my question, I realized I had a problem that could not be described clearly,to start with, and as for details, well, when I looked at my question, and the details I had, I realized, probably no body else would be able to sort it out either, and cancelled, gave up, never even posted the question. It can be hard to even word a question in a way that others will understand, even with good details as well, it is not like when you are there, and can see what is going on, and quickly go through configurations, checking them,
etc,...Hard to explain, but also usually, if and when I figure out how to word my question, so it is clear, and also have a text file, with my details, listed,... well , all of a sudden I start getting better search results, and using my "list", can see which results are probably most relevant, ...and bingo. the question never gets posted , because I found the answer, quite often, it is because someone else asked the same or very similar question somewhere,.....
So yea, some times maybe they actually do find the answer, and solve the problem, and I suppose, the " I give up, and no I am not telling any one what I did, because I am a selfish jerk " I suppose they are trying to get even, because they had to do some work to get a clear answer that works,... or it is they realize their non standard system is a mess, and the only solution is a re-install, restore default config files, and are to embarrassed to admit it "
"Sorry guys, when I started trying to get those details you ask for, I realized it was a mess, so I gave up and did a re-install, working good now."
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby Dai_trying » 2019-02-21 08:34

I would guess that a lot of the time when people do not post requested information it is likely to be they are not running actual Debian but instead some derivative or a distro with a distant relation to Debian but the fact that this forum does indeed give answers (even if they are not in the fashion the OP wants) is likely the reason they come here.

I have noticed that many non-Debian posts have the sentence "I posted on their forum and got no response" or something similar so from that I would say the actual problem is other distributions not giving proper or adequate support (but there could be good reason for this), there are also those using specialist distros that do not have the required skills that are taken as a prerequisite from the maintainers and so what would be considered as a noob question would likely go unanswered or answered with scorn.

I'm sure there are many other reasons too but thought I would offer these up. :)
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby NFT5 » 2019-02-21 08:52

GarryRicketson wrote:Hmm, we would need to see those 2 questions again, Do you remember where you posted them ? Can you post a link to them, ?


I'm not going to derail your thread with my problems. I posted because after much searching I couldn't find answers and I think it turned out that there really were no answers. In the meantime I found workarounds. But my point really was more tongue-in-cheek that hanging around doesn't always guarantee an answer and they were situations that were, to some extent, known, but for which there are no clear cut solutions. Slightly different from what you're talking about where OP disappears before it's apparent that there is no answer or that an answer can't be given without more information.

You are absolutely correct in what you say about posing the question in the right form and then finding that there is a solution - just that you hadn't asked the right question.
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby GarryRicketson » 2019-02-21 13:57

Ok, actually, there are a lot of posts/questions that have never gotten answered, not even a reply, sometimes I look through them, but most just don't have enough details to even do a decent search, or give any kind of answer, or they are not really even questions, but when the OP does not come back and add to the post in some way , they just go further and further down and never get any replies.
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby Bulkley » 2019-02-21 18:43

Quoting myself from an old thread:
What bothers me most about it is these lovely posts from newbies who have installed Jessie or Sid and proceed to ask newbie questions. From where I sit, those who install Testing or Unstable should already know the answers or where to get them and, at least, know how to troubleshoot.


Quoting dasein:
There's a saying here in DebianLand regarding questions like yours: if you have to ask, stick with Stable.
from here
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby pinot » 2019-02-21 23:58

a newbies take:( then i guess i will leave too).

1. people really are dying to try gnu/linux and in this case debian.
2. people do not know what you guys know. just like you do not know things that are people are great at and that comes easy to them. Doesn't mean they shouldn't use gnu/linux.
3. hubris by these people that know debian. the RTFM thing still exists. why read the whole manual when the answer(s) might be from pp.241,363,and 466. they are looking for the cogent answer. or the search the internet thing. what are you lazy? well i hve found answers or parts of answers but the instructions and commands and processes assume you are at a decently beginning advanced level and not a numb nuts like me. and then if you can't search then linuc or debian is not for you.
4. giving someone instructions and generic commands or specific commnads may have to be brought down to their level which most of you refuse to do. you were there too a long time ago.
5. if they knew how to do it and fix things and even follow commands they wouldn't be here asking for help.
6. when i first started - people who knew enough to be dangerous would tell other do this command and do that command and ultimately they were throwing crap in the air to see what would stivk and the poor newbie would be led down the yellow brick road and crash their setup. a didligent helper would help someone backout of the commands he types in terminal to celan up the mess before moving on - but the synergistic pile of junk info left the poor user tcked and frustrated and trying to begin all over again.

could go on but ponder on thse points.
thanks! been an interesting experience here.
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby Bulkley » 2019-02-22 01:56

pinot, I understand what you are saying; do you understand us? First, we are all volunteers. We have varying skills and may or may not have the exact answers that users are looking for. Sorry but this is simply not a professional help desk that can pinpoint each and every cause and effect. It is quite appropriate that users seeking help provide details of their problems and it is also appropriate that we point them in directions that might help. Occasionally it is even appropriate that we try to steer newbies to an easier to use distro.
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-02-22 07:28

pinot wrote:the RTFM thing still exists. why read the whole manual when the answer(s) might be from pp.241,363,and 466. they are looking for the cogent answer.

Use <ctrl>+f to search the man pages.

pinot wrote:people who knew enough to be dangerous would tell other do this command and do that command and ultimately they were throwing crap in the air to see what would stivk and the poor newbie would be led down the yellow brick road and crash their setup

Never run a command without knowing exactly what it will do, this is what the man pages are for.

Anyway, if Debian is too difficult then try a more n00b-friendly distribution first — I used Arch Linux for the first six months before I could figure out how to get Debian working on my hardware.
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Re: Why do people give up , instead of provideing details

Postby sickpig » 2019-02-22 20:09

pinot wrote:a newbies take:( then i guess i will leave too).

1. People really are dying to try gnu/Linux and in this case Debian.
2. People do not know what you guys know. just like you do not know things that are people are great at and that comes easily to them. Doesn't mean they shouldn't use Gnu/Linux.
3. Hubris by these people that know Debian. the RTFM thing still exists. why read the whole manual when the answer(s) might be from pp.241,363, and 466. they are looking for the cogent answer. or the search the internet thing. what are you lazy? well, I have found answers or parts of answers but the instructions and commands and processes assume you are at a decently beginning advanced level and not numb nuts like me. and then if you can't search then Linux or Debian is not for you.
4. Giving someone instructions and generic commands or specific commands may have to be brought down to their level which most of you refuse to do. you were there too a long time ago.
5. If they knew how to do it and fix things and even follow commands they wouldn't be here asking for help.
6. When I first started - people who knew enough to be dangerous would tell other do this command and do that command and ultimately they were throwing crap in the air to see what would stick and the poor newbie would be led down the yellow brick road and crash their setup. a diligent helper would help someone back out of the commands he types in the terminal to clean up the mess before moving on - but the synergistic pile of junk info left the poor user ticked and frustrated and trying to begin all over again.

Could go on but ponder on these points.
thanks! been an interesting experience here.


Pinot, mate don't get disheartened by the crap posters. U gotta know they are all lonely-virgins-wannabe-techies locked away in their dungeons thinking they are the kings of the world just because they know how to type a few commands on a command line.

Just observe the forum for a week and u get to know who the crap posters are, just avoid them
having said that there is a lot of wealth in the forum as well - u can learn a lot by just reading some of the sticky posts. There are also some genuinely humble and helpful people around who selflessly solve issues.

Know this, your lack of Debian specific knowledge doesn't make you any less than the posters. don't' let anyone tell you otherwise. It has a learning curve but not rocket science by any means.

Try modifications in a virtual machine if you can or keep a rescue OS like puppy handy to undo any changes. All changes are text-based, just note the file which gets changed by your action and if your system doesn't boot up you can use the rescue OS to undo that change.

Most of the things would be easy if just go through the Debian faqs on Debian website. it covers most of the beginner pitfalls

Also now Debian is as good as other supposed noob distros. It offers all the same usual DEs. For an end user, the ease of using an OS is defined by the DE used.


Best Luck, hope u stick around and not leave!
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