Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby MagicPoulp » 2019-12-22 14:31

The load is quite complex to measure. You can't jsut look at the memory used.

KDE is based on QT which is in C++. C++ is often loaded with small memory allocations. And each of them stalls the thread scheduler.
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Soul Singin' » 2019-12-22 15:27

Hallvor wrote:KDE Plasma 5.17 uses slightly less RAM than XFCE, and the difference increases as you start more and more applications. It is certainly not as fat as the rumor says.
MagicPoulp wrote:The load is quite complex to measure. You can't jsut look at the memory used.

How much memory your window manager or desktop environment uses is nothing. What matters is how much memory your applications use.

On my system, a fresh boot into LightDM (without logging yet) consumes:

Code: Select all
$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7775         281        7148          18         344        7242
Swap:         11032           0       11032


After logging into IceWM, memory usage is:

Code: Select all
$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7775         335        7029          32         410        7172
Swap:         11032           0       11032


After opening the Dolphin file manager, memory usage is:

Code: Select all
$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7775         373        6900          48         501        7117
Swap:         11032           0       11032


And after opening Firefox (to type this message to you all), memory usage is:

Code: Select all
$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7775         842        6214          79         718        6615
Swap:         11032           0       11032


Firefox alone consumes more memory than everything else. So choosing a desktop environment or window manager based on memory usage is pointless.
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Hallvor » 2019-12-22 18:34

Firefox alone consumes more memory than everything else. So choosing a desktop environment or window manager based on memory usage is pointless.


True. Also, modern computers will run everything out there just fine. Yes, Firefox is quite a resource hog.

Fresh boot:

Code: Select all
hallvor@debian-thinkpad:~$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7668         470        6568         109         629        6852
Swap:          7879           0        7879


With Dolphin and Konsole:

Code: Select all
hallvor@debian-thinkpad:~$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7668         492        6494         155         681        6784
Swap:          7879           0        7879


With Firefox (and addons: Fixed Zoom, uBlock Origin and Privacy Badger) and this thread open:

Code: Select all
hallvor@debian-thinkpad:~$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           7668         787        6006         191         874        6450
Swap:          7879           0        7879
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby anticapitalista » 2019-12-22 20:41

True ... but ...

If you have an old computer, using a window-manager rather than a desktop environment means that the apps will be using the RAM and not the desktop.

eg login to IceWM - it uses lets say 150MB RAM (idle)
Open firefox and it jumps to over 500MB

login to xfce - uses 350 MB idle.
open firefox it jumps to 800MB
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Soul Singin' » 2019-12-23 01:57

anticapitalista wrote:If you have an old computer, using a window-manager rather than a desktop environment means that the apps will be using the RAM and not the desktop.

And if you have a new computer, using a window manager rather than a desktop environment means that the apps will be using the RAM and not the desktop.

Some of us just want something simple.
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-12-23 10:20

Some people prefer simple window manager environments even on powerful computers with plenty of resources because they maintain simple, text-file oriented configuration and the smaller codebase offers a reduced attack surface for the security conscious.
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Danielsan » 2019-12-23 14:16

If you are new, I warmly suggest XFCE4: light, easy to use, highly customizable. By default is pretty ugly but it takes second to make it looking cool and modern!

https://itsfoss.com/customize-xfce/
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby oswaldkelso » 2019-12-23 20:57

Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?
fixed: Which desktop environment is the best end off.

Buster should have little relevance and if it does it needs a very very good reason. I've believe the basic functions of a desktop have not changed much in the last 20 years. open, close move, copy, view , hide, read, write, link etc.

It's the interface that has changed. Loads of them with many variables as to why an "individual" would want a different interface.

For me it's lightness, as I run many old computers. Speed, ease of use and resource use is really important, I want instant response and any discernable lag is painful to me. The only place I allow lag is first start on big applications like a big browser, office suit or graphics application (inkscape for example). Easy of use and mouse and keyboard support. I love my mouse and want it to work anywhere, where it's strength can show. Bling is not one of my priority's except when demonstrating just how great my desktop is :-)

On my current setups I have TDE, and XFCE as the only desktops I have installed. I think they are the best ootb DE environments. Very suitable for new users and people that just want a sane easy to use interface. My Ex could hardly tell the difference between xfce and lxde but could use either. I'm not sure if she knew which she was running but if it had an easy to find menu it meant less grief for me.

For many years I ran black box, then switched to a very heavily tweaked openbox, and for the last 2 years I've run a slightly tweaked icewm. I say slightly tweaked but small tweaks can make a huge difference.

I honestly believe for the things I require my tweaked icewm is faster, easier to use and more functional than either full Gnome or KDE. ymmv
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Soul Singin' » 2019-12-23 23:51

oswaldkelso wrote:I honestly believe for the things I require my tweaked icewm is faster, easier to use and more functional than either full Gnome or KDE.

IceWM is certainly faster and easier to use. That's true. But saying that IceWM is "more functional" than Gnome or KDE is too generous. That would imply that Gnome and KDE are functional. They're not. . :mrgreen:
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Hallvor » 2019-12-24 10:11

IceWM - doing less with less efficiency since 1997. :mrgreen:
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Soul Singin' » 2019-12-24 14:10

Hallvor wrote:IceWM - doing less with less efficiency since 1997. :mrgreen:

I do not know how you define "efficiency," but the "doing less" part is exactly right.

I want something that "does less."

Flashy window animations. I want less of that. Please do not bend, twist or slide the windows on my computer screen. When I close a window, please do not make it disappear behind a ball of flames.

Smart menu suggestions. I want less of that. Please do not suggest applications based on my usage patterns. I know what I want in my menu. Please let me make that decision.

Desktop widgets. I want less of that. Please do not clutter my desktop with a bunch of folders, widgets and icons. I selected a beautiful desktop wallpaper. Seeing it covered with widgets is like looking at a backyard full of dog poop.

Notifications. I want less of that. Please do not display system messages in the tray. Unless my battery is running low, I do not need to see them.

IceWM is great because it "does less!" . :D
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Bulkley » 2019-12-24 22:02

Soul Singin' wrote:I want something that "does less."

Me too. Your reasons are similar to why I use Openbox.

Something that has puzzled me for years is the horizontal task bar, usually at the bottom. Computer screens lack vertical space. Paper documents usually have the long edge vertical. For some reason desktop screens are horizontal. I always want more vertical space so I set the task bar (tint2) on the left side and make it transparent.
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby oswaldkelso » 2019-12-24 22:34

Bulkley wrote:
Something that has puzzled me for years is the horizontal task bar, usually at the bottom. Computer screens lack vertical space. Paper documents usually have the long edge vertical. For some reason desktop screens are horizontal. I always want more vertical space so I set the task bar (tint2) on the left side and make it transparent.


This all depends on how we want to use your desktop. I have two panels. icewm taskbar at the top because I want to see time, date, cpu, network, calc, calendar along with my tiling buttons and the like. I dislike the workspace/pager in icewm so run tint2 at the bottom of the screen. Likewise so I can see what's running and on which workspace without the extra step of revealing it.

It all comes down to how one want's to do things and if your DE/WM will allow it. Both openbox and icewm allow lots if folks can be arsed to read the configs and tweak them to their liking. My config turns off lots off icewm options because they screw with other things I want to control. Some of the new default features in 1.6.2 annoy the crap out of me but will no doubt be the bees knees to someone else. At least I can turn them off or hide them and use my desktop as I want it to be used.

Edit:
I see The latest released version is 1.6.3 (2019-11-24). but for my configs I still have 1.3.7 running on some machines and both work fine for my setup.
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2019-12-24 22:59

Bulkley wrote:For some reason desktop screens are horizontal

Vertical panels restrict the space available for the clock — look how small the one in MX is, they have to use a mahoosive conky to compensate.

And the asymmetry is a sin against nature :mrgreen:
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Re: Which desktop environment is the best for Buster?

Postby oswaldkelso » 2019-12-24 23:15

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
Bulkley wrote:For some reason desktop screens are horizontal

Vertical panels restrict the space available for the clock — look how small the one in MX is, they have to use a mahoosive conky to compensate.

And the asymmetry is a sin against nature :mrgreen:



Vertical panels are in general for users that don't have text in their panels or are Chinese. Serious question, I wonder if Chinese users turn their monitors 90 degrees?
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