power management and cpu governors :)

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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-03-01 00:07

That's still fairly bad arse Wiz10k and those temps are still well within tolerance. :) Stands to reason a beast of a heatsink or cooling system may complement this undervolting (thermal throttling) situation too. Not sure what's practical in that for a laptop outside of what you're doing already. Have never really checked what methods of stepping up heat dissipation on laptops are being used. People with 6 fans and a liquid cooled system on a desktop pc. Such has always seemed excessive to me, well out of my league. Things throughout this thread taught or clarified a lot of cpu-core related things for me too. Thanks guys ...

Intel is apparently behind this Clear OS distro and all the patchery they're applying to the Linux kernel is apparently causing real improvements in performance. Compared to others ... Considering Intel's been, still is the premiere cpu manufacturing people in the world, pretty much since there's been cpu(s)am sure they've got people with knowledge unequaled on the subject, other technology too. Still AMD's people must not be slouches either, they've been holding their own and staying competitive with a much larger entity forever themselves and Google Inc same .... Last time I'd bothered checking, was making in excess to 20 billion per/Yr in revenues, no doubt that's increased since then as they're always expanding and absorbing new things. Those kind of resources have to buy some of the top tech talent in the world and even with that, still took quite some time before these "flaws" in Intel's design architecture came to light.

Again I think came to light means, well fellas, didn't think it'd ever happen but we finally got busted, was a good run while it lasted though ... 10-15yrs, damn those pesky software engineers at Google! No worries, in this type of thing the waters so murky/muddy by this point, nobody will ever be able to point a finger, it was a "design flaw" afterall. Oops ... sowwie. Meanwhile xyz-govt/Corp has been spying it's booty off or someone's been siphoning off who knows how many gazillions of bucks on the worlds stock markets or whatever else that whole time. :D

Truthfully all this stuff makes me inherently less trustful of Intel's gear. Though because I prefer doing so (buying older hardware), next system will likely end up being Intel based too. Am not going to raise my nose in the air if come across a 3rd/4th gen i5 or i7 at a good price etc. Will snatch it up and begin tweaking hades out of the system per usual. Every now and then, less so lately, I still try to research the Intel vs AMD situation and see who has what, what's the best thing going on in the chip market. Did so last night ...

Ah this chip from Intel is the best choice in performance ... Has this, has that, these things ... pricetag of only $2,999. :P Could put together 10 super-lightspeed space beast systems just for the cost of that chip. Don't believe Intel overly cares about this undervolt affair, still only ever going to be a minority who bothers with it. The base premise just sounds odd and majority of people will stay away. Fiddling around with the current in an electronic component. Yep you just set your mobo so that the chip get's less voltage than the manufacturer sets it up for and whala ... It runs xyz faster because xyz does xyz and the xyz thermal thingy's. Avg person(pc user), errrr yeah, that's great, please step away from my computer now. Yeah ... sounds awesome, stop pushing buttons on my $750 buck computer. YEP ... GREAT, stop touching that!

Used to do that to family/friends, come over and absent mindedly be sitting there tweaking settings on their pc's, disabling default services running on windows, that are known security issues etc. Had to curb the impulse to tweak this junk and strictly confine that to stuff they couldn't ever possibly use etc. :P
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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby stevepusser » 2020-03-01 20:51

Here's a little screencast gif (made with Peek) of part of my XFCE taskbar in MX 19 right now as all twelve threads are at 100% use compiling the Pale Moon browser update packages.

Image

Left to right are

    the network down-up (streaming some music) in the hardware-monitor plugin
    wmhdplop in the wmdock plugin showing hard drive use in a colorful way
    wmtemp in the wmdock plugin (top is CPU temp in F, don't really know what the SYS is, but the readings are always close)
    RAM use (top) and swap use bottom (showing a leftover hibernation file from the last time I hibernated the machine), in the hardware-monitor plugin
    CPU speed
    CPU use--twelve narrow bars are per core, and the thicker one is overall

The speed is 3.90 GHz for about the first 15 seconds when all are 100%, but then the BIOS drops it down to 3.60. Without undervolting, those values are 3.60 and 3.20. When I first got the Optimus laptop, I couldn't get Bumblebee working, so the Nvidia discrete GPU was always turned on and eating power, so the maximum speed under sustained stress was even lower: 2.80 GHz, which was very disappointing. Later on I got Bumblebee and undervolting working, so the Nvidia GPU is off unless I want it running, and speeds are good.

The MSI also has a undocumented way to unlock the BIOS settings to access all kinds of advanced features, including changing a voltage "slope" setting so it can run at 3.90 GHz all day at 100%, but I didn't like the 93-94 C CPU temperatures I was getting, so reverted that.
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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby wizard10000 » 2020-03-01 21:43

stevepusser wrote:I couldn't get Bumblebee working, so the Nvidia discrete GPU was always turned on and eating power...


Having some difficulty with it myself - I can boot with Intel graphics but for some reason I lose my laptop keyboard when I do and this doesn't happen with nouveau or proprietary Nvidia drivers. I also lose compositing but am less worried about that :)
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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby stevepusser » 2020-03-01 22:38

wizard10000 wrote:
stevepusser wrote:I couldn't get Bumblebee working, so the Nvidia discrete GPU was always turned on and eating power...


Having some difficulty with it myself - I can boot with Intel graphics but for some reason I lose my laptop keyboard when I do and this doesn't happen with nouveau or proprietary Nvidia drivers. I also lose compositing but am less worried about that :)


I'm using the filthy tainted "bumblebee-nvidia" with this laptop. We didn't even try to get bumblebee-nouveau working with the MX Nvidia installer (please don't tell RMS!)
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Re: power management and 'cpu governors :)

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-03-02 10:15

^ Lmao :) ... Yep, like you don't clearly already know, mid 90's temps would make any techie nervous. Output of sensors having long been informing me 100deg is "critical" would be uncomfortable ever seeing it anywhere close for long. Much less for a sustained period, though you know what's possible, more so than most with application/experience. Would be fiddling and twitching if temps hit those ranges. Also been stringently evading proprietary graphics drivers, will cross that bridge when I have to. :)

Funny post tweaking someone else's pc call back:

Errrrrrr yeah seems to work much better/faster in general, just can't print anything.

Me: Damn you, stupid spooler service!!! :P Why wouldn't it auto launch when needed!? Stupid thing! Oops, over tweaking, will fixy. My fault. :)
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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-03-10 00:40

@Steve ... an alternative to making swappiness setting less of a concern on all systems, providing option to install pre-tuned web browsers, include Noscript or equivalent, tweak some things out-of-box. Many of the Firefox tweaks don't effect performance, even improve it, only it's resource useage isn't tarded and Chrome/ium can likewise be tuned. Been advocating this since #!(Crunchbang) dys and no distro devs-maintainers seem interested. For many even adjusting swappiness looks like it'll take an act of Congress to have them even consider it.

Bottomline ... modern browsers are ridiculous in terms of system overhead nowadays, w/o proper tuning. Yes this is on topic, untuned browsers smash people's cpu's now too. Could be even more dreadful depending on power governor. Chrome out-of-box was so bad almost vowed to never launch, install or use the thing again. Then investigated all of what users can do to tune it and had a change of heart. Still prefer Firefox o course.
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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby Deb-fan » 2020-03-12 02:11

HAPPY BIRTHDAY wizard10000!!! Sheesh just thought that was your username, not how many years old ya are. :P No worries, you are getting wiser and stronger in the source. Like star wars, may the source be with you.
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Re: power management and cpu governors :)

Postby wizard10000 » 2020-03-12 09:38

Many thanks for the birthday wishes :)

Yesterday was the 23rd anniversary of my 40th birthday. My 40th was the only time I've been surprised by a birthday party and I had so much fun I decided to stop counting there :mrgreen:

On my 40th the spousal unit told me we were going to have a quiet birthday dinner out but when we got to the restaurant she'd reserved a room and all my friends were there. She'd asked all my friends to bring me a toy that cost no more than $3 and we had a blast - I still have a few of those toys more than 20 years later :)
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