Xen Virtualization.

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Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-06-27 19:41

Hello,
In Xen hypervisor, what is "HVM with PV driver" and "PVHVM"? Both are same?

Thank you.
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-27 21:49

Perhaps a 20 years ago it would be a valid question ...
Just use the KVM -> problem solved ;)
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-27 22:55

Could you please , just once at least try to research your question before asking ?
In Xen hypervisor, what is "HVM with PV driver"
============================
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-06-28 11:40

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:Perhaps a 20 years ago it would be a valid question ...
Just use the KVM -> problem solved ;)

Why KVM? I prefer VirtualBox over KVM.
No companies using Xen :D
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-06-28 11:43

cuckooflew wrote:Could you please , just once at least try to research your question before asking ?
In Xen hypervisor, what is "HVM with PV driver"
============================
What we expect you have already Done.
Stop being a help vampire, nobody likes it.
from: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/19665/the-help-vampire-problemIt's all too easy to blame Help Vampires for problems in Stack Overflow.

But it's not them, it's us. The people who feed them.

If the question is an exact duplicate, let them know it's an exact duplicate.

If the question is a trivial question about something from the standard library, don't forget to link to the standard library documentation while answering the question.

If someone asks "Why doesn't this code work?", and the debugging is trivial, don't just do the trivial debugging for them. Show them how they can debug it themselves (for example, tell them about warning flags).

If you mean " PV on HVM driver" then it is various.
I want to know "HVM with PV driver" and "PVHVM" . I found something but they are not complete.
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-28 12:30

So tell us what you found, Why is it not complete ?

And so now, we have yet another question:
by hack3rcon » 2020-06-28 11:40

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:
Perhaps a 20 years ago it would be a valid question ...
Just use the KVM -> problem solved ;)



Why KVM? I prefer VirtualBox over KVM.

Why KVM? I prefer VirtualBox over KVM
It really is just a matter of preferences, you don't tell us why you prefer Virtual Box over KVM ? One reason many of use do not use Virtual Box is that it is not in the Debian repositories, and is not opensource. So maybe tell us your reasons ?
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
Search Engines know a lot, and
"If God had wanted computers to work all the time, He wouldn't have invented RESET buttons"
and
Just say NO to help vampires!
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-28 13:02

by hack3rcon »No companies using Xen

You are wrong on this, next time do a little research first, before saying anything


from: https://xenproject.org/users/automotive-embedded/The Xen Project drives Forward

The Xen Project’s growth in embedded and automotive has a fleet of organizations that contribute to its continued growth in these environments, including GlobalLogic, EPAM, ARM, Qualcomm, Bosch Car Multimedia Gmbh.

The Xen Project hypervisor is already being used in embedded and automotive systems, including GlobalLogic’s Nautilus, EPAM Fusion Cloud, BAE Systems, Dornerworks, and Star Labs
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-06-29 12:33

cuckooflew wrote:So tell us what you found, Why is it not complete ?

And so now, we have yet another question:
by hack3rcon » 2020-06-28 11:40

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:
Perhaps a 20 years ago it would be a valid question ...
Just use the KVM -> problem solved ;)



Why KVM? I prefer VirtualBox over KVM.

Why KVM? I prefer VirtualBox over KVM
It really is just a matter of preferences, you don't tell us why you prefer Virtual Box over KVM ? One reason many of use do not use Virtual Box is that it is not in the Debian repositories, and is not opensource. So maybe tell us your reasons ?

KVM is a type-2 like VirtualBox. The VirtualBox is easy to use and have a good community.
Why you use KVM instead of Xen? Is it because of Amazon switched to KVM :D
The Amazon hypervisor(nitro) is based on KVM but Amazon is an active member of Xen and developing it. For example, google "Xen Live Patching" .
I don't know why you want to start a war.
Some users using Slackware and some other using Debian.
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby cuckooflew » 2020-06-29 13:35

So, what does slackware have to do with it ? We talking about Debian, aren't we ?
Why you use KVM instead of Xen? Is it because of Amazon switched to KVM
And Amazon has nothing to do with it either, I all ready said, on Debian, and also other OS, VirtualBox is not in the repositories.
But also QEMU/KVM simply works much better the VB, in my opinion,....but really, use what ever you want, everyone has their preferences.
I don't know why you want to start a war.

Who said anything about starting a war ? Why do you say that ? Is that why you asked the original questions ? Just to start grudging and arguing ?
For example, google "Xen Live Patching"

Why would I want to do that ? I have no interest in Xen, ..
Please Read What we expect you have already Done
Search Engines know a lot, and
"If God had wanted computers to work all the time, He wouldn't have invented RESET buttons"
and
Just say NO to help vampires!
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-06-29 17:16

hack3rcon wrote:Why you use KVM instead of Xen? Is it because of Amazon switched to KVM :D

KVM is simply the fastest virtualization technology available in the market today - and it's very unlikely that there will be anything faster in the foreseeable future.

Anyway, it's really funny to see how many companies are completely misunderstanding virtualization -> often they are deploying entire OS in a VM just to run a single application - instead of using containers/slices or just ordinary processes, which are also virtualized by the kernel ...
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-07-01 07:48

cuckooflew wrote:So, what does slackware have to do with it ? We talking about Debian, aren't we ?
Why you use KVM instead of Xen? Is it because of Amazon switched to KVM
And Amazon has nothing to do with it either, I all ready said, on Debian, and also other OS, VirtualBox is not in the repositories.
But also QEMU/KVM simply works much better the VB, in my opinion,....but really, use what ever you want, everyone has their preferences.
I don't know why you want to start a war.

Who said anything about starting a war ? Why do you say that ? Is that why you asked the original questions ? Just to start grudging and arguing ?
For example, google "Xen Live Patching"

Why would I want to do that ? I have no interest in Xen, ..

Amazon using both Xen and KVM. Look at the Xen mailing list and you can understand it.
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-07-01 07:55

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:
hack3rcon wrote:Why you use KVM instead of Xen? Is it because of Amazon switched to KVM :D

KVM is simply the fastest virtualization technology available in the market today - and it's very unlikely that there will be anything faster in the foreseeable future.

Anyway, it's really funny to see how many companies are completely misunderstanding virtualization -> often they are deploying entire OS in a VM just to run a single application - instead of using containers/slices or just ordinary processes, which are also virtualized by the kernel ...

KVM is type-2 like VirtualBox.
Internet is full of benchmarks about Xen and KVM but benchmark is not easy to test and because of it some of benchmarks are not OK.
You can see "https://indico.cern.ch/event/45282/contributions/1117476/attachments/945535/1341280/XEN_KVM.pdf
About containers you right but the container problem is that you can run containers that are same to the host OS.
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby LE_746F6D617A7A69 » 2020-07-01 12:59

hack3rcon wrote:KVM is type-2 like VirtualBox.

It depends on how will You look at it.
Since version ~2.6 the Linux kernel works just like the type-1 hypervisor, that is, it just manages virtualized containers, just like XEN, but without the need to use XEN as a backbone. From this point of view, the KVM is just another container managed by the kernel, working in a 'HVM'-like mode.
This approach allows f.e. for better I/O scheduling, especially if the containers are sharing the same storage - and this is a primary reason why KVM beats XEN under heavy I/O load.

No doubt there is a lot of people who get used to XEN, and XEN is still used to manage many production servers - so it will be developed and supported in the future -> but it's no longer needed.

As for VirtualBox, it's deadly slow when using its the default hypervisor, f.e.:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=virtualbox-60-kvm&num=1

Obviously, VirtualBox can be configured to use KVM - but then, what would be the reason to use VirtualBox at all?
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby eriefisher » 2020-07-01 13:38

KVM is dead easy to set up. No flaky vboxdriver, no closed source, already built in to the kernel. It will also import other VM's. I don't know it Vbox does it but KVM can run full screen at native resolution. There have been too many issues with Vbox over the years and KVM just works.
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Re: Xen Virtualization.

Postby hack3rcon » 2020-07-02 19:09

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:
hack3rcon wrote:KVM is type-2 like VirtualBox.

It depends on how will You look at it.
Since version ~2.6 the Linux kernel works just like the type-1 hypervisor, that is, it just manages virtualized containers, just like XEN, but without the need to use XEN as a backbone. From this point of view, the KVM is just another container managed by the kernel, working in a 'HVM'-like mode.
This approach allows f.e. for better I/O scheduling, especially if the containers are sharing the same storage - and this is a primary reason why KVM beats XEN under heavy I/O load.

No doubt there is a lot of people who get used to XEN, and XEN is still used to manage many production servers - so it will be developed and supported in the future -> but it's no longer needed.

As for VirtualBox, it's deadly slow when using its the default hypervisor, f.e.:
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=virtualbox-60-kvm&num=1

Obviously, VirtualBox can be configured to use KVM - but then, what would be the reason to use VirtualBox at all?

You said the Xen hypervisor using in many product but "but it's no longer needed." :D
OK, the companies that using Xen are fool but you and other KVM fans are genius.
Xen covers many kernel bugs.
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