new kernel 5.6 and I cannot boot, but I could on 5.3

[MagicPoulp]

With kernel 5.5.17-1~bpo10+1 on buster I can boot fine. But not with 5.6.

With a debian dist-upgrade, I got a new kernel 5.6. But the PC does not boot any more I get stuck on a black screen, without any text shown.
In rescue mode, I can see the text. It mainly mentions some usb stuff. By the way I am booting on a USB drive.

At the end I get this warning
ACPI Warning: \_SB.PCI0.PEG0.PEGP._DSM: Argument #4 type mismatch - Found [Buffer], ACPI requires [Package] (20180313/nsarguments-66)

and then an extra line that says "failed to evaluate _DSM". And the same error line contains "_SB.PCI0.PEG0.PEGP._DSM".
and the last line says "switching to nouveau [...]"

My computer has an NVIDIA GPU.

I searched and I could not find a fix. Help would be appreciated.

I found this similar issue:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=137096

Note I have XFCE and no gnome was installed from the debian installer.


Note: The debian installer allows to have backports sources to download. ANd I have kept the apt config from the installer. So I installed a kernel linux-image-amd64 from buster-backports. And then it got upgraaded automatically. I know I can lock this in the preferences. But it may be interesting to try the new backported kernel when there is one. So I keep it that way.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

Regressions are unfortunately common, this is why Debian stable keeps the same kernel version. Do you actually need the backported kernel?

[stevepusser]

This is what happens when you use a backports kernel without updating the nonfree Nvidia driver from backports also. I'm assuming that's what you're using from your meager information (if you have a graphics problem you should provide your hardware and driver information, amiright?). So that is not a surprise.

The same goes for other third-party drivers you may be using, such as broadcom-sta, virtualbox, etc.

[MagicPoulp]

I need the backported kernel otherwise my usb drive is not bootable.

I never installed nvidia non-free drivers. I stick to nouveau as HeadOnAStick said several times.

But I do not have a big issue. I can still boot on the 5.5 kernel. If I want I can disable automatic upgrades from backports. I was just curious what happens with this kernel 5.6. The error printout is very meager. Maybe 5.6 can work with nvidia proprietary drivers but I prefer not to try.

Regards
Thierry

[stevepusser]

Some hardware still needs non-free firmware for the nouveau driver, and those file requirements can change for newer kernels. Debian has the nouveau firmware in firmware-misc-nonfree, though the buster-backports version may be somewhat older than the 5.6 kernel, at about a year.

I'm not saying that's the problem for sure, but installing the newer firmware from backports is perfectly safe for older kernels, too.

[MagicPoulp]

OK thanks now I understand you better. Previously you said "NVIDIA driver".

Maybe we need a different definition for firmware and driver.

https://superuser.com/questions/299442/ ... ice-driver
"Firmware implements low-level details that are required to operate the hardware, and provides an API/ABI to a higher level. A device driver provides an adapter between the OS and the API/ABI exposed by the firmware."

I have installed all the non-free firmwares I could a few months ago.
I got hte list in the zip: and then I installed using apt-get on non-free
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unoff ... /20200209/

I have to check how I installed those. Probably not from backports.

But yes you may be right that the kernel 5.6 is not in sync with those firmwares.

[Mr. Lumbergh]

I recently had trouble with the RT version of 5.6, but with re-initializing USB ports through a sleep/wake cycle instead of booting; they weren't even getting power.
Check out the 5.4 kernel, it's considered an LTS release that'll be getting 6 years of maintenance: https://fossbytes.com/linux-lts-kernel- ... tead-of-2/.

[MagicPoulp]

Good to know.

I cannot, the buster-backports has only 5.3 and 5.6.

Maybe in the future it will show up.

[Mr. Lumbergh]

Good to know.

I cannot, the buster-backports has only 5.3 and 5.6.

Maybe in the future it will show up.

It should be available in the main repos, that's where I'm getting it.

[djk44883]

If you're running stable... and want to keep things stable isn't "best practice" apt get upgrade / apt-get upgrade ?

Because apt full-upgrade / apt-get dist-upgrade, not only upgrades but installs new and it may remove some. note: install new is not upgrade already installed.

[Bulkley]

If you're running stable... and want to keep things stable isn't "best practice" apt get upgrade / apt-get upgrade ?

I think you mean

Code: Select all

# apt-get update && apt-get upgrade

[stevepusser]

The present definitions of firmware and drivers are correct. There are free nouveau drivers, but those may require some non-free firmware for some hardware, and newer kernels may require newer versions of the firmware files.

The non-free drivers from Nvidia in the repos will install both the driver and firmware they use. The recent updates for those in Buster for security reasons also made them able to build on newer kernels.

Debian has finally updated the firmware upstream, and they should make their way into backports pretty soon, if not already. I don't think that Debian has backported the 5.7 kernels yet, though I've done it successfully for MX Linux and here:

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show ... source-5.7

There's firmware backports in that repo, too.

[djk44883]

If you're running stable... and want to keep things stable isn't "best practice" apt get upgrade / apt-get upgrade ?

I think you mean

Code: Select all

# apt-get update && apt-get upgrade

First post says they did dist-upgrade ? Suggest they used apt-get (dated). I was showing examples for either atp or apt-get

In the end - to remain stable, avoid apt-get dist-upgrade OR apt full-upgrade

Adding packages and/or removing while upgrading can lead to, well a non-booting system?

[MagicPoulp]

I am 100% sure dist-upgrade is correct on debian. (but very dangerous on Ubuntu if you have experience there). If dist-upgrade breaks your debian, then you did not follow the anti franken debian best practices.
run man apt-get

yes dist-upgrade resolves cross dependencies and can replace several packages.
The debian installer had configured my apt-sources to automatically upgrade also buster-backports. I changed the preferences. And i locked my kernel in the grub config.

it is not possible you got a kernel 5.x from the main repo since buster was frozen on 4.19.

--
stepusser:
ok interesting to understand the flow of firmwares in debian.

But I never really had a problem. I had a working kernel, and I had configured my apt preferences to upgrade the backports.
So I just froze my kernel for now on. But I was curious because the booting was very scarce on errors information.

In the future, I may want the 5.4 LTS when it is in a good shape on Debian.

[MagicPoulp]

Stevepusser,

I have many packages firmware-* installed from the stable repo of debian. such as firmware-linux-free.
The backported kernel 5.3 worked immediately. But 5.6 broke.

It really seems that the firmwares in stable were not ready to syn with the kernel 5.6. For this I can just wait for them to update them, or fetch them from buster-backports. I did not try fetching them from backports.

And maybe extra tweaks would be needed. Like the intel tweak and the nvidia tweak. You said those once I cannot find where. What are those?

Besides, the bios is updated.

[djk44883]

I am 100% sure dist-upgrade is correct on debian. (but very dangerous on Ubuntu if you have experience there). If dist-upgrade breaks your debian, then you did not follow the anti franken debian best practices.
run man apt-get

Yes, I read the man page, where it says it can add new and remove some. That's what the command does, just because you can, doesn't mean it's the best way to go about it.. If you want to upgrade Debian stable, according to The Debian Administrator's Handbook - https://www.debian.org/doc//manuals/deb ... ex.en.html

6.2. aptitude, apt-get, and apt Commands - https://www.debian.org/doc//manuals/deb ... et.en.html

6.2.3. System Upgrade
Regular upgrades are recommended, because they include the latest security updates. To upgrade, use apt upgrade, apt-get upgrade or aptitude safe-upgrade (of course after apt update).

For more important upgrades, such as the change from one major Debian version to the next, you need to use apt full-upgrade. With this instruction, apt will complete the upgrade even if it has to remove some obsolete packages or install new dependencies. This is also the command used by users who work daily with the Debian Unstable release and follow its evolution day by day. It is so simple that it hardly needs explanation: APT's reputation is based on this great functionality.
Unlike apt and aptitude, apt-get doesn't know the full-upgrade command. Instead, you should use apt-get dist-upgrade (”distribution upgrade”), the historical and well-known command that apt and aptitude also accept for the convenience of users who got used to it.

apt-get dist-upgrade is indeed a Debian command - it is not intended for routine upgrades for a system running stable... at least not the way Debian has it documented. Running Debian Bullseye testing or sid it is recommended.

As for apt vs apt-get - from the begining of the article

apt is a second command-line based front end provided by APT which overcomes some design mistakes of apt-get.

Both tools are built on top of the same library and are thus very close, but the default behavior of apt has been improved for interactive use and to actually do what most users expect.

(don't have to like it )

[MagicPoulp]

I disagree. If you would break more your system by using upgrade or dist-upgrade is not fundamental in the command. It depends on your application and your scenario.

If you have only stable repositories set up for upgrades (no backports), then in general dist-upgrade is better. But that was not my case, that is why dist-upgrade fetched 5.6 from buster-backports.

If a package has a certain dependency version, it should use it. But only dist-upgrade will replace installed packages. That is why in general, dist-upgrade is better.

It is important to remember that debian is not a rolling release like Fedora. And new packages are added in a minimalist way with the goal not to break running systems.

A dist-upgrade produces a result nearer to what you would get by installing debian from a daily build or the latest debian .iso.

I get the following from the man pages.
And upgrade says "under no circumstances are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed".

upgrade
upgrade is used to install the newest versions of all packages currently installed on the system from the sources enumerated in
/etc/apt/sources.list. Packages currently installed with new versions available are retrieved and upgraded; under no circumstances
are currently installed packages removed, or packages not already installed retrieved and installed. New versions of currently
installed packages that cannot be upgraded without changing the install status of another package will be left at their current
version. An update must be performed first so that apt-get knows that new versions of packages are available.

dist-upgrade
dist-upgrade in addition to performing the function of upgrade, also intelligently handles changing dependencies with new versions
of packages; apt-get has a "smart" conflict resolution system, and it will attempt to upgrade the most important packages at the
expense of less important ones if necessary. The dist-upgrade command may therefore remove some packages. The /etc/apt/sources.list
file contains a list of locations from which to retrieve desired package files. See also apt_preferences(5) for a mechanism for
overriding the general settings for individual packages.

Using either apt-get or apt is almost equivalent, with only the interface to the user that changes. Apt-get does not have critical design mistakes. It is just more verbose.

If you have debian 9, dist-upgrade will not move you to debian 10.

[djk44883]

You're right the man page explain how/what the command does - that's it. Not necessarily how or why to use it. Debian does have an extensive documentation, - https://www.debian.org/doc//manuals/deb ... ex.en.html
"Debian 10 The Debian Administrator's Handbook Debian Buster from Discovery to Mastery"


backports set a "default" priority for installed applications - there should be no need to dist-upgrade to pull them in.

priority 100
to the version that is already installed (if any) and to the versions coming from archives which in their Release files are marked as "NotAutomatic: yes" and "ButAutomaticUpgrades: yes" like the Debian backports archive since squeeze-backports.

I got that from a man page, so I'm out.

[MagicPoulp]

So you mean than I would have aquired 5.6 even using apt upgrade?

But if a new package was part of 5.6, but not part of 5.3, apt upgrade does not fetch it.

THe linux kernel is a meta package and the sub packages include the kernel number in the name. So it really seems I could not get those with apt upgrade.

[stevepusser]

What did I mention the tweaks for Intel and Nvidia as fixes for? Adding a Tearfree option?

The new firmware isn't in backports yet, but it's been perfectly safe to install the upstream packages in Stable in the past.