apt-get out of date

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apt-get out of date

Postby SniffTheGLove » 2020-11-12 11:39

Hi, I am a real newbiee to Linux so excuse my ignorance. I have just installed Debian on my PC.

I am wondering how often apt-get gets updated with newer packages?

I am asking because I have just followed a tutorial on installing Python and one of the things that gets installed is pip, the python package manager.
If I do a check on the version of pip that gets installed it is version 18.1 but the current version is on pypi version 20.

So how quickly are the packages on apt-get updated?
If it's going to take a long time could someone point me to a resource on how to instal pip version 20 without going through apt.

Also, who actually is responsible for apt? is it Debian or some other body.

Thanks for reading and helping.

Peter
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby arochester » 2020-11-12 12:01

Which tutorial?

Is the package you need python3-pip? https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=python3-pip

You might be able to backport this from Bullseye https://backports.debian.org/
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby SniffTheGLove » 2020-11-12 12:59

Hi, the tutorial is https://pimylifeup.com/installing-python-on-linux/

The command to instal was
sudo apt-get install -y python3 python3-venv python3-pip
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby arochester » 2020-11-12 13:27

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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby sgosnell » 2020-11-12 13:29

On Debian Stable, packages don't get updated often. That's why it's called Stable, it doesn't change. Everything from the kernel on stays on the same version, and not much besides security updates ever changes. Do not look for the newest and shiniest software in Debian Stable, because you will not find it. The focus is on working without issues, and it does that.
Take my advice, I'm not using it.
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby RU55EL » 2020-11-12 16:47

SniffTheGLove wrote:Hi, I am a real newbiee to Linux so excuse my ignorance. I have just installed Debian on my PC.

I am wondering how often apt-get gets updated with newer packages?


When the newer versions of apt-get have been tested and approved for Debian stable.

[edit] Package for Debian stable are usually updated about every two months when point a "point release" comes out. Unless the update is deemed important enough for immediate release. [/edit]

SniffTheGLove wrote:I am asking because I have just followed a tutorial on installing Python and one of the things that gets installed is pip, the python package manager.
If I do a check on the version of pip that gets installed it is version 18.1 but the current version is on pypi version 20.


Are you asking how often apt-get gets updated, or how often Python gets updated? Again, when newer versions of Python are have been tested and approved for Debian stable they are incorporated into Debian stable. That means that frequently the version in Debian stable lags behind the current version.

SniffTheGLove wrote:So how quickly are the packages on apt-get updated?
If it's going to take a long time could someone point me to a resource on how to instal pip version 20 without going through apt.


What does version 20 have, that you need, that version 18.1 doesn't have? Also, are you talking about apt-get packages, or the Python pip software that you also refer to. They are two separate packages. Apt is also another separate package.

[/edit] Again, Debian stable has a "point release" about every two months were newer versions of packages are introduced, as well as updates that don't merit immediate updating. One of the things that I love about Debian stable is that it is very reliable. In part, that is due to the fact that everything gets thoroughly tested. That also means that software versions are usually not the latest available. In my experience, that really doesn't matter. I have never come across an occasion where the latest version of software had a feature that the current Debian stable version didn't have, that I needed, or desired. [/edit]

SniffTheGLove wrote:Also, who actually is responsible for apt? is it Debian or some other body.


OK, are you asking about python3-pip, apt-get, or apt? Three separate packages. (Check the Maintainer line.)

Code: Select all
russel@DESKTOP-CK0E8I6:~$ apt show python3-pip
Package: python3-pip
Version: 18.1-5
Priority: optional
Section: python
Source: python-pip
Maintainer: Debian Python Modules Team <python-modules-team@lists.alioth.debian.org>
Installed-Size: 707 kB
Depends: ca-certificates, python3-distutils, python-pip-whl (= 18.1-5), python3:any
Recommends: build-essential, python3-dev (>= 3.2), python3-setuptools, python3-wheel
Homepage: https://pip.pypa.io/en/stable/
Download-Size: 171 kB
APT-Sources: https://deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
Description: Python package installer
 pip is the Python package installer.  It integrates with virtualenv, doesn't
 do partial installs, can save package state for replaying, can install from
 non-egg sources, and can install from version control repositories.
 .
 This is the Python 3 version of the package.


Code: Select all
russel@DESKTOP-CK0E8I6:~$ apt show apt
Package: apt
Version: 1.8.2.1
Priority: important
Section: admin
Maintainer: APT Development Team <deity@lists.debian.org>
Installed-Size: 4,162 kB
Provides: apt-transport-https (= 1.8.2.1)
Depends: adduser, gpgv | gpgv2 | gpgv1, debian-archive-keyring, libapt-pkg5.0 (>= 1.7.0~alpha3~), libc6 (>= 2.15), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.0), libgnutls30 (>= 3.6.6), libseccomp2 (>= 1.0.1), libstdc++6 (>= 5.2)
Recommends: ca-certificates
Suggests: apt-doc, aptitude | synaptic | wajig, dpkg-dev (>= 1.17.2), gnupg | gnupg2 | gnupg1, powermgmt-base
Breaks: apt-transport-https (<< 1.5~alpha4~), apt-utils (<< 1.3~exp2~), aptitude (<< 0.8.10)
Replaces: apt-transport-https (<< 1.5~alpha4~), apt-utils (<< 1.3~exp2~)
Download-Size: 1,418 kB
APT-Manual-Installed: yes
APT-Sources: http://security.debian.org buster/updates/main amd64 Packages
Description: commandline package manager
 This package provides commandline tools for searching and
 managing as well as querying information about packages
 as a low-level access to all features of the libapt-pkg library.
 .
 These include:
  * apt-get for retrieval of packages and information about them
    from authenticated sources and for installation, upgrade and
    removal of packages together with their dependencies
  * apt-cache for querying available information about installed
    as well as installable packages
  * apt-cdrom to use removable media as a source for packages
  * apt-config as an interface to the configuration settings
  * apt-key as an interface to manage authentication keys


[edit]
I also recommend that you stick with the software from the Debian official repositories. If you are more interested in the very latest shiny software, you might consider using Ubuntu.
[/edit]
Last edited by RU55EL on 2020-11-15 14:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » 2020-11-12 18:47

SniffTheGLove wrote:one of the things that gets installed is pip

Don't use that: https://xkcd.com/1987/
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby sgosnell » 2020-11-13 00:02

IMO, Debian Sid is better than Ubuntu. Ubuntu takes Sid, tweaks it until it barely runs, and kicks a new version out the door every 6 months, ready or not, here it comes. I've been running Sid for years, and have had only a couple of hiccups over the years, each lasting a day or two. It's called Unstable because it changes frequently as new packages arrive, not because it breaks often. IME it's far less likely to have issues than Ubuntu. I ran Ubuntu for a long time, but I got tired of the constant borkage and moved to Debian, and never looked back. I do not recommend Ubuntu to anyone, for anything. YMMV.

To the original question, apt-get does not get out of date. It just queries the repositories and reports new packages there, and installs them if told to. Debian Stable will never have the newest packages. It's called stable because it doesn't change. Every package in Stable is going to be an older version than the latest, that's almost guaranteed. You have to either accept that or run something else. If new and shiny is essential to you, then run Sid. it might break for a day or two, but seldom longer. If you're new to Linux, or even to Debian, do not run Testing. Borkage there tends to last much longer. It's purpose is to work out all the bugs in the next Stable, and is pointed at experienced users who know Linux, and are capable of reporting bugs accurately.
Take my advice, I'm not using it.
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Re: apt-get out of date

Postby Islander » 2020-11-17 20:33

Like other people said, Debian is designed to be stable, not to have the newest updates to software.

But, if you want a newer version of a package, you can sometimes find it in the backports repository. It contains packages that are really targeted for the next release of Debian, but ported back to your version.

For example, if you're using Debian 10 (Buster), you can enable buster-backports by entering
Code: Select all
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian buster-backports main contrib non-free

into the file /etc/apt/sources.list.d/buster-backports.list

For example, you start the pico editor by typing
Code: Select all
sudo pico /etc/apt/sources.list.d/buster-backports.list

entering the text above, and then typing Ctrl-S Ctrl-X .

Then update your package list:
Code: Select all
sudo apt update

When you want to install a newer version of software from backports, you type
Code: Select all
sudo apt install -t buster-backports package_name

But you have to check on a case-by-case basis if the package version you want is available in backports.

These instructions assume you have sudo configured on your system, and that you want to install non-free software.
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