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HOWTO: Installing Newer Apps on Etch
HOWTO: Installing Newer Apps on Etch
WARNING: Please read the whole thread BEFORE attempting to follow the indications in this howto.
Lou - 28 May 2007
I am using Etch with Ratpoison 1.4.0 and IceWM, i wanted to have the
latest version for Ratpoison (1.4.1) but Lenny didn't have it, only Sid
had it. Dist-upgrading to Sid for just one application was not worth it
for me.
I knew there was "pinning" but it gives me a headache, i knew i had
seen another way somewhere else but i couldn't remember. I went to
check the APT-HOWTO.
APT-HOWTO
http://www.us.debian.org/doc/manuals/ap ... ex.en.html
Sure enough, there it was:
Section 3.8 How to keep a mixed system
I switched to IceWM and deleted Ratpoison:
$ sudo dpkg -P ratpoison
1. I edited the file /etc/apt/apt.conf and left it looking like this:
$ sudo jpico /etc/apt/apt.conf
APT::Default-Release "stable";
saved and exited
2. Went to my /etc/apt/sources.list and left it looking like this:
$ sudo jpico /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
#deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
As you can see i changed the first line to 'unstable' and commented the
other two (no security in Sid and no sources necessary).
saved/exited from the editor
3. Updated and installed Ratpoison:
$ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -t unstable install ratpoison artwiz-cursor
afterwards, i updated the database:
$ sudo updatedb
4. Changed the the sources.list back to the original form,
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
saved/exited
$ sudo apt-get update
updated the system and voilá!
checked the version:
luigi@debian:~$ ratpoison -v
ratpoison 1.4.1 (built Apr 19 2007 20:41:01)
Copyright (C) 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 Shawn Betts
Lou
May 26 2007
Lou - 28 May 2007
I am using Etch with Ratpoison 1.4.0 and IceWM, i wanted to have the
latest version for Ratpoison (1.4.1) but Lenny didn't have it, only Sid
had it. Dist-upgrading to Sid for just one application was not worth it
for me.
I knew there was "pinning" but it gives me a headache, i knew i had
seen another way somewhere else but i couldn't remember. I went to
check the APT-HOWTO.
APT-HOWTO
http://www.us.debian.org/doc/manuals/ap ... ex.en.html
Sure enough, there it was:
Section 3.8 How to keep a mixed system
I switched to IceWM and deleted Ratpoison:
$ sudo dpkg -P ratpoison
1. I edited the file /etc/apt/apt.conf and left it looking like this:
$ sudo jpico /etc/apt/apt.conf
APT::Default-Release "stable";
saved and exited
2. Went to my /etc/apt/sources.list and left it looking like this:
$ sudo jpico /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
#deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
As you can see i changed the first line to 'unstable' and commented the
other two (no security in Sid and no sources necessary).
saved/exited from the editor
3. Updated and installed Ratpoison:
$ sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -t unstable install ratpoison artwiz-cursor
afterwards, i updated the database:
$ sudo updatedb
4. Changed the the sources.list back to the original form,
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
saved/exited
$ sudo apt-get update
updated the system and voilá!
checked the version:
luigi@debian:~$ ratpoison -v
ratpoison 1.4.1 (built Apr 19 2007 20:41:01)
Copyright (C) 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 Shawn Betts
Lou
May 26 2007
Last edited by Lou on 2007-05-28 14:05, edited 2 times in total.
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
- chrismortimore
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 2007-04-24 06:34
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
That could potentially drag in a lot of unwanted dependencies from unstable. What I would be inclined to try first is adding this to sources.list:
And running "apt-get source ratpoison" and see if the package builds against Etch first. Most of the time, it will.
Code: Select all
deb-src ftp://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
Desktop: AMD Athlon64 3800+ Venice Core, 2GB PC3200, 5x320GB WD 7200rpm Caviar RE2 (RAID5), Nvidia 6600GT 256MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Once you did this:
With a sources.list like this:
...and an apt.conf file like this:
...upgrades will only come from Testing unless you use the "-t <otherbranch>" option.
Occasionally, you will be offered a dependency from another branch if the application in your "Default-Release" is broken.
You didn't need this:$ sudo jpico /etc/apt/apt.conf
APT::Default-Release "stable";
saved and exited
************$ sudo jpico /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
#deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free
With a sources.list like this:
Code: Select all
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib
Code: Select all
APT::Default-Release "testing";
Occasionally, you will be offered a dependency from another branch if the application in your "Default-Release" is broken.
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
richh, the thing is: rp 1.4.1 and artwiz-cursor exists only in Sid, not in Testing, and i wanted to keep Etch with a couple of apps from Sid (later on i got icewm 1.2.30 from Sid too). Maybe i'm dense and not getting your point
Last edited by Lou on 2007-05-27 16:16, edited 1 time in total.
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
- chrismortimore
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 2007-04-24 06:34
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
As long as you have "APT::Default-release "stable";" in your /etc/apt/apt.conf, you can leave the unstable repos in your sources.list without worry.Lou wrote:Maybe i'm dense and not getting your point
Desktop: AMD Athlon64 3800+ Venice Core, 2GB PC3200, 5x320GB WD 7200rpm Caviar RE2 (RAID5), Nvidia 6600GT 256MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Ahh, why would i want to do that? Why not go back to 'stable' and minimize the potential tsunami? If i go back and put my sources.list to 'stable', won't it make it simpler and safer? Or is it all redundant, in the sense that it's the same? Or from then on, will i be installing everything from Sid, and if so, i might as well do a 'dist-upgrade' to Sid and live with it?chrismortimore wrote:As long as you have "APT::Default-release "stable";" in your /etc/apt/apt.conf, you can leave the unstable repos in your sources.list without worry.Lou wrote:Maybe i'm dense and not getting your point
Last edited by Lou on 2007-05-27 16:22, edited 1 time in total.
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
Think about it a little bit. The way mine is set up, "aptitude search" will show applications from Testing, Unstable, and Experimental; but "aptitude install artwiz-cursor" will fail because apt.conf sets Testing as the default. To get artwiz-cursor, I would have to use: "aptitude install -t unstable artwiz-cursor"
Last edited by rickh on 2007-05-27 19:12, edited 1 time in total.
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
- chrismortimore
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 2007-04-24 06:34
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
You're worried about a potential tsunami, and yet you're quite happy to pull in programs and all of it's dependencies from unstable on a stable system? That's fine now, but a year down the line (or even a few months), unstable and stable will be so different that it probably will upgrade half of the system.Lou wrote:minimize the potential tsunami?
Desktop: AMD Athlon64 3800+ Venice Core, 2GB PC3200, 5x320GB WD 7200rpm Caviar RE2 (RAID5), Nvidia 6600GT 256MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
rickh:
Ah...gotcha!
And yet, eventhough, you're correct, i'm not going to do it that way, because of my own mind limitations that's why i don't use 'pinning' i can't remember jackcrap
Thanks rickh, for getting me out of this abyss of darkness in which i dwell
Ah...gotcha!
And yet, eventhough, you're correct, i'm not going to do it that way, because of my own mind limitations that's why i don't use 'pinning' i can't remember jackcrap
Thanks rickh, for getting me out of this abyss of darkness in which i dwell
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
In the APT-HOWTO there is a section that states:chrismortimore wrote:You're worried about a potential tsunami, and yet you're quite happy to pull in programs and all of it's dependencies from unstable on a stable system? That's fine now, but a year down the line (or even a few months), unstable and stable will be so different that it probably will upgrade half of the system.Lou wrote:minimize the potential tsunami?
*******************************
3.9 How to upgrade packages from specific versions of Debian
"apt-show-versions provides a safe way for users of mixed distributions to upgrade their systems without getting more of the less-stable distribution than they had in mind. For instance, it is possible to upgrade just your unstable packages by running after having installed the apt-show-versions package:
# apt-get install `apt-show-versions -u -b | grep unstable | cut -d ' ' -f 1`
********************************
Will this solve the scenario you're painting or not?
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
I said:
...but that is not true. I've been doing some experimentation, and I was certainly overconfident about how securely such a setup would lock in Testing. After more experimenting, I'll make some clarifications.but "aptitude install artwiz-cursor" will fail because apt.conf sets Testing as the default. To get artwiz-cursor, I would have to use: "aptitude install -t unstable artwiz-cursor"
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
Another reason you want the repos from where you got the app enabled is when the package get updated. Imagine you install a package from Sid then disable the repo. Then after a week a horrible security problem is discovered so a new version is uploaded.Lou wrote:Ahh, why would i want to do that? Why not go back to 'stable' and minimize the potential tsunami? If i go back and put my sources.list to 'stable', won't it make it simpler and safer? Or is it all redundant, in the sense that it's the same? Or from then on, will i be installing everything from Sid, and if so, i might as well do a 'dist-upgrade' to Sid and live with it?
With Sid disabled in your sources you would blissfully keep using the dangerous version because you get no updates from Sid.
But if you leave it enabled and uses default-release you will get the updated version from sid... but only that. It's *very* important to ensure the packages from Sid gets updated because that's where the most horrible bugs are.
Tina
Lavene's comments tie directly to what I have found to be the case. Given the setup I described above:
1. If you set out to install a program available only in Sid (e.g. aptitude install artwiz-cursor), aptitude will install it directly from Sid without any inquiry. If it exists in both Testing and Sid, it will install the Testing version.
2. Once you have installed a program from Sid (even as an automatically installed dependency), that program is somehow marked as "update from Sid," and subsequent upgrades or dist-upgrades will check Sid for newer versions.
1. If you set out to install a program available only in Sid (e.g. aptitude install artwiz-cursor), aptitude will install it directly from Sid without any inquiry. If it exists in both Testing and Sid, it will install the Testing version.
2. Once you have installed a program from Sid (even as an automatically installed dependency), that program is somehow marked as "update from Sid," and subsequent upgrades or dist-upgrades will check Sid for newer versions.
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
- chrismortimore
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 2007-04-24 06:34
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
No. The scenario I'm painting is more of a problem when packages require specific versions of it's dependencies. Such as the ratpoison 1.4.1 deb package requiring libc6 >= 2.5 (as shown here). Given Etch ships with 2.3.6, you probably just went and upgraded a pretty vital bit of your system without thinking to the unstable version. Kind of defeats the point of running stable, doesn't it? And that is for something as simple as ratpoison, for more complex programs, more and more unstable packages will sneek into your computer.Lou wrote:Will this solve the scenario you're painting or not?
Question, and please answer honestly. Did you check what packages it wanted to upgrade when you installed ratpoison from unstable?
Desktop: AMD Athlon64 3800+ Venice Core, 2GB PC3200, 5x320GB WD 7200rpm Caviar RE2 (RAID5), Nvidia 6600GT 256MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
I always answer honestly, no ego herechrismortimore wrote: Question, and please answer honestly.
Yes, i looked at them, there were only two IIRC.Did you check what packages it wanted to upgrade when you installed ratpoison from unstable?
So, am i better off moving to Sid now that i installed these 2 apps? Is it worth it moving the whole system to Sid?
Devuan Jessie - IceWM - vimperator - no DM
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid
You've already got libc6 from Sid, but I've been running that for a while on a system that's primarily Lenny with no problems. Personally, I like keeping my "safe" system based in Lenny with things pulled from Sid as needed, rather than randomly.
I would think, though, that you're certainly capable of maintaining a Sid system if you feel like it.
I would think, though, that you're certainly capable of maintaining a Sid system if you feel like it.
Debian-Lenny/Sid 32/64
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
Desktop: Generic Core 2 Duo, EVGA 680i, Nvidia
Laptop: Generic Intel SIS/AC97
testing/unstable mixes are generally ok, lots of people run them and since the way testing is updated is very similar to mixing testing and unstable the packages had damn well better work in that situation. Stable/testing or stable/unstable mixes are ok right now but will get more and more risky as more and more stuff as testing and unstable move further than further away from stable.
- chrismortimore
- Posts: 849
- Joined: 2007-04-24 06:34
- Location: Edinburgh, UK
I'd suggest either rolling back the packages it upgraded to Etch, or go to Lenny. As plugwash says, a mixed testing/unstable system is fine, because the two are usually pretty similar. Unless you particularly want to go to Sid, I see no reason to. But I'm biased, ever since Sid ate my LVM partitions a few years ago, I've stayed away from it as a host system.Lou wrote:So, am i better off moving to Sid now that i installed these 2 apps? Is it worth it moving the whole system to Sid?
Desktop: AMD Athlon64 3800+ Venice Core, 2GB PC3200, 5x320GB WD 7200rpm Caviar RE2 (RAID5), Nvidia 6600GT 256MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB
Laptop: Intel Pentium M 1.5GHz, 512MB PC2700, 60GB 5400rpm IBM TravelStar, Nvidia 5200Go 64MB