Microsoft and Xandros

[jml]

Just read this on Cnet. Looks like Microsoft is at it again. Now they have inked a patent deal with Xandros. Makes me very happy that I run a distro with no commercial dependancies.

Joe

http://news.com.com/Microsoft+teams+wit ... g=nefd.top

[Debianarchist]

true, makes me think a lot less of Xandros at the moment than i thought possible.....weren't they touting themselve as a full windows replacement?
And on a Debian base? The horror, the horror........whose next? Mepis perhaps?

sigh

[Lavene]

I don't get it. Since when has endusers been responsible for patent infringements?? It's the manufacturer of a device (or software) that carry the responsibility. At least in this part of the world. Because there is no way in hell the consumer can check for patent violations be it software or other things.

If I buy a refrigerator I can not know if it's inner workings violate any current patents regarding refrigeration. Same with software, as a user with no programming skills I have no way of knowing if a program violates any patents. That is the programmer's responsibility and he is the one that should be sued.

I have never ever heard of endusers being sued over patent disputes. I know a few inventors/ manufacturers that have been smacked with a patent though. However, as far as I know we don't have software patents here. Maybe this is another case of "only in America" (No, this is not an anti-USA flame bait).

Tina

[Absent Minded]

Maybe this is another case of "only in America" (No, this is not an anti-USA flame bait).

Thank you Tina! I have always had a Great respect for your knowledgeable posts .... although I am from America. I admit though that a great deal of us here are not overly thrilled with the countries leaders for some time now. Australia is looking pretty good to me at times.

Which brings me to what I was reading along with all of you about Xandros ... WOW what a slap in the face to a great many of it's users. It just sickens me to hear of yet another Linux distro bowing before the almighty M$. I can't help but think that it is some sort of adjenda to try and get all the big money Linux caught in bid with M$ so when our community needs help defending its self from M$ FUD we are less capable of retaining leagle defense. It also is a bit un-nerving to look at the implications of these commercial Linux vender's as they sign their soul over to satin as it were. As a whole we are strong and fairly capable of defending our legitimacy. In little pieces I am not real certain we would have what it takes to remain in court for years if it came to that. I love the open-source community as I would a brother, I just wish I could learn some coding. I need something that starts out really simple though as I have a very difficult time remembering what I study.

As far as Xandros goes, I have never been a big supporter of their distro as it always was about the money with them. Unlike others I can think of (Mandrake comes to mind) that have used much of their generated income to help support the open-source community. It is sad to me that many such projects have gone by the wayside bowing to the almighty dollar and forgetting their roots. Maybe I am just getting Old, sienial and sentimental.

Thank you all for giving me a place where I can feel at home even when I am out in left-field someplace.
Michael

[Lavene]

I love the open-source community as I would a brother, I just wish I could learn some coding. I need something that starts out really simple though as I have a very difficult time remembering what I study.

One word: Python!

[dmn_clown]

I don't get it. Since when has endusers been responsible for patent infringements??

Since the SCO lawsuit against Autozone set a legal precedent over suing the end user.

Looks like Microsoft is at it again.

I wonder if they made the same mistake as they did on the Novell agreement...

[llivv]

'

[Lavene]

I don't get it. Since when has endusers been responsible for patent infringements??

Since the SCO lawsuit against Autozone set a legal precedent over suing the end user.

Ok, so it is a case of "Only in America". Thanks, I have been wondering about that ever since the MS/ Novell affair. And honestly, I really understand if people are afraid then but damn... what a strange scenario.

But it's not an actual ruling yet is it? I thought all the SCO lawsuits was 'on hold' until the thing with IBM is over...?

Tina

[Vergil]

I don't get it. Since when has endusers been responsible for patent infringements??

Patents cover use (by anyone). This includes end users, since they are by def. users. The reason why end users are not sued is that you could get little money because they weren't making money of it.

1. A patent shall confer on its owner the following exclusive rights:
(a) where the subject matter of a patent is a product, to prevent third parties not having the owner’s consent from the acts of: making, using, offering for sale, selling, or importing (6) for these purposes that product;
(b) where the subject matter of a patent is a process, to prevent third parties not having the owner’s consent from the act of using the process, and from the acts of: using, offering for sale, selling, or importing for these purposes at least the product obtained directly by that process.

Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights -WTO

[GMouse]

It is sad to me that many such projects have gone by the wayside bowing to the almighty dollar and forgetting their roots. Maybe I am just getting Old, sienial and sentimental.

It isn't so much that they're "bowing to the almighty dollar", but that they're sacrificing their future interest for a very temporary gain. It's a very human tendency, as evidenced by rampant government debt and those endless ads about refinancing existing debt and advance check-cashing, as well as predatory sub-prime lending practices.

[Vergil]

Since the SCO lawsuit against Autozone set a legal precedent over suing the end user.

SCO vs world was about copyrights not patents.

[DeanLinkous]

mp3 licensing specifically says that a end user does not need a license for playback

1) Do you license mp3, mp3PRO and mp3surround software to end users?

No. We license mp3/mp3PRO software and patents to developers and manufacturers of software applications and hardware devices.

A end user cannot obtain a CSS license...

# Process A - For Resellers and Assemblers.

# Process B - For Content Providers, Authoring Studios, and DVD Disc Replicators.

# Process C - For CSS Disc Formatter Manufacturers, DVD Player Manufacturers, DVD Drive Manufacturers, CSS Decryption Module Manufacturers, Descrambler Manufacturers, Authenticator Module for DVD Drive, Authenticator Module for CSS Decryption Module, Verification Product Manufacturers, Integrated Products Manufacturers

So IMO patent issues are not a end-user problem. How could it be when a end-user cannot pay for a license for themselves.

I think the term 'using' in that excert from the WTO means 'using as part of a product' not BobUser sort of use.

The autozone case proves nothing IMO because autozone is hardly BobUser sitting at home watching dvds using libdvdcss and that case was about a LOT more since autozone was a customer of sco who started using a different OS.

[Vergil]

So IMO patent issues are not a end-user problem. How could it be when a end-user cannot pay for a license for themselves.

I think the term 'using' in that excert from the WTO means 'using as part of a product' not BobUser sort of use.

Well, the WTO (and us patent law) don't define user, so be very legalistic about it, anyone could be sued. However, it doesn't matter because MS, if they will (which I doubt) sue companies not individual users.

Of course, I bet most MS patents would be dismissed because of prior art, so MS would lose anyway.

[jml]

After thinking about it for a bit, I think that there are two reasons for M$'s moves. First, I think they are trying to do an end run around RedHat. RH has done a pretty good job pushing their business plan in a market that M$ wants more of. Its possible by getting into bed with all of the other big comercial distros, M$ is hoping to generate some FUD in the board rooms of corporate America.

They may also want to spread some of this FUD among the many local governments both in the US and elseware in the hopes of stemming the tide of movement to open document formats.

I also would not be suprised to see M$ try to use these relationships to push help modify the direction the distros develop. DRM anyone? Just my two cents worth.

Joe

[llivv]

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[AgenT]

Eben Moglen on Microsoft’s ‘be very afraid tour’

[Lavene]

And here comes the obligatory statement that Xandros does not really believe Linux violates any MS patents...

[AgenT]

For those that are concerned about these issues should really get involved in the GPLv3 drafting processs. Right now is the last draft and GPLv3 will be released next month. There is a nice and open draft editing page where people can highlight text and give their comment to help the GPLv3 be as strong as possible.

You can help with anything from correcting vague language that a company like Microsoft may try to take advantage of in the future, to help decide how previous deals such as MS-Xandros are dealt with. Right now, the GPLv3 will NOT break the current deals that happen. I would highly recommend anyone who does not agree to this to voice their opinion so that the final version WILL break any pacts such as the Microsoft-Novell/Xandros/LG.

Remember, no post done on this forum is going to make a difference in these deals or any future ones, but the GPLv3 will.
http://gplv3.fsf.org/

[llivv]

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[AgenT]

Thanks AgneT
I hope at least a few here will read this Why Upgrade to GPL Version 3

I actually made a thread about it a few days ago:
FSF Releases "Last Call" Draft of GPLv3