Couldn't agree more. Most answers aren't in documentation, they're in web forums. And if you don't want to help, you simply don't have to. I haven't answered any real questions in these forums for a while, but I still lurk around to see what people are asking sometimes, to see if I learn anything new.
I have a feeling Dean is actually more concerned about newb-mindedness than he is about helping on forums. The problem is that everyone can't know about everything. I know squat about cars, and I hope I never have to learn. Some people probably feel the same way about their computers.
forum == 2+2 is 4
documentation == learning how to do addition
If people came to the forum to learn addition then it would be great, if people came to the forum to seek clarification about documentation it would be great - but they just want the 'answer'
newb-mindedness seems to == go to forums to get quick answer
Well, you PAY to remain ignorant about your car dont you?
If you don't want to hold hands with a newbie, then don't. You're under no obligation. Other people (like me) feel good about themselves when they help someone else out.
Forums are great when they provide live help. For example, see my recent thread where I couldn't start X.
And they're also great because they leave a record that people can search to find solutions to similar problems. In fact, we solved the problem because Telemachus pointed me to other forums where people encountered the same error message.
So should I feel good when I teach my child how to tie their shoes or when I 'help' them by doing it for them every day?
Yep, instead of actually expecting people to understand disk space and to know a little more than 'squat' we simply tell them to run to the forums and post like mad so others can google for them. Yea, they leave a record of things to try regardless if you have any understanding of what you are doing or not.
Documentation could be written in wiki's but then you cant really ask questions
I think that good documentation would probably answer any questions that someone may have, that and a little brain power.
Actually, I don't get tired of "hand holding" but I do get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. It seems that some people don't take the time to search the forum before posting a question
The thing is, I dont think there is a question that hasnt been asked/answered a thousand times over... Yes, something about the question may be slightly different but I think people could manage to figure out how to adapt the answer into their own solution. But far too many answers on forums are 2+2=4 instead of a lesson in addition and aren't really 'meaty' but rather just 'something else to try'.
So I see it as a bit of giving back to the community that helped me.
I feel like that also....but then I realize that the community that helped me REALLY helped me by explaining shit and expecting me to put in some effort. The debian installation manual is a perfect example - I cursed it, hated it, loathed it, but by god when I got done I had a good understanding and I could tie my shoes and nobody needed to do it for me.
It would be a lot more helpful if we could yell at the dummies.
I got a lot of help from forums when I first started, but I can honestly say, I don't think that I ever needed a follow-up question once my forum query had been answered. Once I had some kind of clue about what I was dealing with, the rest of the answers were easy to find by myself.
Pet peeve: People who think a suggestion is an invitation to start a chat session.
Agree completely. I think forums are coddling dummies, even catering to them and if nobody is ever allowed to tell them to 'stop being dumb' then they will continue right on because they probably are not even aware they are being dumb.
Yep, I remember mailing lists more probably but some forums as well and to me a real answer was a clue/hint/suggestion about what it MAY be and what I should be reading up on or looking into - not someone running to wipe my ass for me. I dont ever remember ANYONE asking for a 'step by step' or 'as easy as possible' or 'the exact commands I enter' or similar. I think somewhere along the past few years something got all out of whack and I am afraid it is popularity that has caused it. If someone doesnt want to know 'squat' about linux they should probably go back to that other os where you are expected to not know squat.
Yea, is a forum a chat room? Seriously. I realize I am guilty as well sometimes but a little banter is one thing - constant chatter is another.
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How much mis-information is in forums too? spread over and over, used over and over by those without a clue - duplicating the same misinformation.
I liked it better when people would post their config files and what THEY did to get their hardware to work on a web page somewhere and you searched thru those and learned many things you wasnt even looking for and hopefully found out what you was looking for as well. Reading a REAL how-to that explained irqs, IO address, serial port names, flow control, and AT commands just to get your modem working. Getting done with it and having a REAL understanding of what all is involved and having true knowledge of a subject rather than just a answer.
I think linux is becoming more and more like windows - dumbed down. There is not as much 'learning' involved anymore - and thats a bad thing, not a good thing.
Is having auto-xorg any different than what windows provides? Will anyone have any knowledge of how to tweak xorg in a few years - will we even be able to do so?
Where is linux headed?
(rambling again)
