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Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

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kedaha
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#21 Post by kedaha »

sunrat wrote: 2021-10-22 01:02 I don't understand the obsession with latest Firefox [ ...]SNS syndrome is all.
"The grass is always greener on the either side of the fence" as the old proverb goes. :mrgreen:
An advantage of Debian's firefox-esr is that webext-https-everywhere and webext-ublock-origin-firefox, and other packages can also be installed from the main repository, which provides an additional layer of security.

I think alternative methods of downloading, installing and configuring upstream or third-party software are contrary to the rationale of Debian, which is to provide tried and tested software, installable via apt, from its official main repository.

The latest upstream applications may be OK or even better for normal browsing but increasingly, server administration is done by means of login and passwords over web interfaces; think, for example, of phpmyadmin, cockpit or wordpress when surely firefox-esr would be preferable. Although there are a lot new Debian desktop users who are accustomed to, and expect things like "the latest firefox", "snaps" and the like, Debian continues to be pre-eminently a distribution preferred by sysadmins who have little interest in such things unless they're also developers of such software.

But the good thing is that there's choice; if one wants SNS then one can have it. :wink:
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#22 Post by sunrat »

kedaha wrote: 2021-10-22 11:01 Although there are a lot new Debian desktop users who are accustomed to, and expect things like "the latest firefox", "snaps" and the like, Debian continues to be pre-eminently a distribution preferred by sysadmins who have little interest in such things unless they're also developers of such software.

But the good thing is that there's choice; if one wants SNS then one can have it. :wink:
What was that old saying? Something like "If one wishes to shoot oneself in the foot, Debian's job is to deliver said bullet to one's foot in as efficient a manner as possible". :mrgreen:
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#23 Post by maxb »

sunrat wrote: 2021-10-22 10:41 Sounds like you don't trust the crack team of Debian developers and maintainers.
A coworker once wrote code that would seriously mess up your machine if you tried to uninstall it. It sounds malicious AF, but I know for a fact that it happened by accident, just a very nasty bug in the uninstaller. Nice guy though.

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#24 Post by Bulkley »

kedaha wrote: 2021-10-22 11:01An advantage of Debian's firefox-esr is that webext-https-everywhere and webext-ublock-origin-firefox, and other packages can also be installed from the main repository, . . .
I never knew that. Thanks!

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#25 Post by kedaha »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-10-24 02:34I never knew that. Thanks!
[ ...]that webext-https-everywhere and webext-ublock-origin-firefox, and other packages can also be installed from the main repository,...

It's funny how one can overlook things like that; for example, until quite recently, I'd never realised how convenient it is to create additional profiles in my firefox-esr, which is done very simply by typing firefox-esr -p in a terminal or using the "Run Application" widget with ALT F2 and typing it there. This is another big advantage for me because I now have not only a separate profile for all my Debian stuff, which is quite large, but also for my other languages in addition to English, namely Spanish and Welsh. I don't know how languages are handled in "the latest firefox" but being able to install them from the main repository with:

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# apt install firefox-esr-l10n-es-es firefox-esr-l10n-cy
is an added bonus. I knew of the existence of profiles but had never bothered to create one!
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#26 Post by Deb-fan »

^ Firefox is one of those things that seems no matter how long someone has used it, can still always find something new and interesting in it. Another way to create profiles, type "about:profiles" in the browsers address bar + hit Enter key and you have the option to create/rename/remove-etc profiles. A person can also type "about:about" in the address bar and get a list of all of different options like this that are available. Still don't know what most of them are even for and have used FF since a couple of versions before it went v 1.0. :D
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#27 Post by Luquitas_Mayo »

kedaha wrote: 2021-10-22 11:01
An advantage of Debian's firefox-esr is that webext-https-everywhere and webext-ublock-origin-firefox, and other packages can also be installed from the main repository, which provides an additional layer of security.
Thanks for the information. Where can I see what other packages are specific to firefox in relation to security?

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#28 Post by kedaha »

Maybe I misphrased that; by "other packages", I was just referring to the language packages in the main repository, not additional packages related to security.
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#29 Post by cynwulf »

sunrat wrote: 2021-10-22 01:02I don't understand the obsession with latest Firefox. What does it have that current stable 78.15.0esr does not have? And yes I've tried v92 in Sid, actually prefer the ESR version. SNS syndrome is all.
Won't ESR 91 migrate to stable via Debian Security once 78 is EoL? If that's the case, I also don't see the issue. As you and I know, we used to have a lot of threads about this, especially back in the Iceweasel era. Most of those were just the product of a complete lack of understanding and research from the OP.

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#30 Post by Luquitas_Mayo »

kedaha wrote: 2021-10-28 12:45 Maybe I misphrased that; by "other packages", I was just referring to the language packages in the main repository, not additional packages related to security.
Sure, I looked for and only found the language packs, that's why I asked if there was any other important or interesting pack like those two.
Thanks.
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#31 Post by maxb »

arochester wrote: 2021-10-21 09:40 Ubuntuzilla (unfortunate name) works. It involves installing an external repository.

https://www.unixmen.com/ubuntuzilla-eas ... -products/
Is it not a little bit dangerous to trust binary blobs and/or software from little-known third parties? There were 12 cases of malware in PyPI that stole financial details, so this is not purely hypothetical paranoia speaking.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/twelve-ma ... from-pypi/

By the way, Chromium in Stable is 3 months behind on the security fixes. So that ain't too safe either: https://security-tracker.debian.org/tra ... e/chromium

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#32 Post by epp »

Per the Firefox Release Calendar, 91.0esr was released back on August 10.

Here's a question that hasn't been asked in this thread:

Why wasn't the 91-series first made available back then?

So, to answer the OP's question on the best way to run the latest Firefox, IMHO, is to use the Snap package. I once tried the Ubuntuzilla repository and when the need arose to remove one of the packages via Synaptic, the menu entry for it was not deleted from the menu. Had to use a menu editor to delete it. Uninstalling the Snap package as a test, resulted in a clean uninstall, including the removal of its menu entry.

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#33 Post by kedaha »

That's not the latest! Version 94.0 (stable), from flatpak, released on 28 October 2021 is:

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$ flatpak search firefox 
Name         Description                                                                            Application ID                Version     Branch Remotes
Firefox      Fast, Private & Safe Web Browser                                                       org.mozilla.firefox           94.0        stable flathub
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#34 Post by sunrat »

Snap and flatpak are not the best way to run anything on Debian. They both require huge runtime dependencies to be installed. I recommend them as last resort if no other package source is available.
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#35 Post by dlu2021 »

epp wrote: 2021-11-02 22:23 Here's a question that hasn't been asked in this thread:

Why wasn't the 91-series first made available back then?
To me it looks like Debian tracks the entire esr release, including .13, .14, and .15. Currently all of the security repos are at 78.15. It looks like 91.3 hit unstable today, my guess would be that shortly 91.3 will be back ported to stable-sec, old-sec, etc.

So, to answer the OP's question on the best way to run the latest Firefox, IMHO, is to use the Snap package. I once tried the Ubuntuzilla repository and when the need arose to remove one of the packages via Synaptic, the menu entry for it was not deleted from the menu. Had to use a menu editor to delete it. Uninstalling the Snap package as a test, resulted in a clean uninstall, including the removal of its menu entry.
Personally, I think that the best option is to use the procedure from the Debian wiki, https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox, where they suggest to use the Mozilla binaries. If you extract them in your home folder, then they automatically update without root, much like it does when installed in Windows. Another advantage that this method has is it, since it isn't running as a snap or flatpak you don't have any of the integration issues and bloat. Just my two cents.

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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#36 Post by craigevil »

firefox beta 95 from snap.
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#37 Post by kedaha »

This topic can go on forever... Forever? Well, maybe not forever, but at least until the EOL (end of life) of Debian 11.

There's another way to look at it which is this: The latest Firefox for bullseye is the version available from the main repository and all the other versions are simply not from Debian 11. Conclusion: The best way is to install the official firefox-esr "in" Debian 11 rather than other unofficial versions "on" Debian 11, which is a different kettle of fish.

I'm happy with what I've got, namely firefox-esr together with webext-https-everywhere and webext-ublock-origin-firefox and a couple of language packages, all installed from main. But I'm all for choice and if folks wish to run the latest upstream versions of such software in other ways, it's up to them.
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#38 Post by sunrat »

kedaha wrote: 2021-11-03 11:18 This topic can go on forever... Forever? Well, maybe not forever, but at least until the EOL (end of life) of Debian 11.
Maybe we should lock it as it is getting overly boring and repetitive.
There's another way to look at it which is this: The latest Firefox for bullseye is the version available from the main repository and all the other versions are simply not from Debian 11. Conclusion: The best way is to install the official firefox-esr "in" Debian 11 rather than other unofficial versions "on" Debian 11, which is a different kettle of fish.
Agreed. ESR version works perfectly here.
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Re: Best way to run the latest Firefox on Debian 11?

#39 Post by cds60601 »

I have recently struggled with this also. I admit, I fall into the shiny/new group. While it is not out of necessity (it used to be for KiCad a few years back) I still fall into that mode of wanting the newest. Happily using Sid, much of this for me goes by the way-side.
I have considered Flatpaks as an alternative to this habit I have fallen into. However, with the recent trends that Firefox has moved to, I opted for and completed my move to LibreWolf this weekend. Thus forgoing the need to introduce Flats/AppImages/Snaps.

If I were to continue to use Firefox, I would still follow the Debian Wiki on how to deal with that. While not perfect, it still does work pretty well.
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