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Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

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smallpotion
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Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#1 Post by smallpotion »

Considering the following scenario: a customer has charged me with selling them a custom made Debian PC (x64) that runs a specific open-source app in kiosk mode. They have no technical experience, they don't know what Debian is, the terms they want is buying a black box solution from me which is "a kiosk PC running this app". As a Linux user I know this could be an issue GPL-wise but I couldn't get around this by telling the customer "you're buying a PC from me, plus a service to install and configure Debian for you, so you're responsible for GPL compliance".

Anyway, I would like to do this:
0) Assemble the PC
1) install Debian from the official DVD ISO, apt install some packages
2) configure it to run that app at startup (basic autostart .desktop entry), and some more configuration to improve touchscreen input
3) Include in the deliverables the Debian ISO, a text of the GPL, documentation of my changes for #2, and a newbie-friendly document explaining that this PC is running a libre OS, and they can upgrade it in the future if they want. They have the root password, and nothing is closed about this PC.
4) Sell them this PC

From what I know about GPL (not a lawyer), it would seem that step 1 where I use official Debian binaries instead of providing source + instructions to compile from source, mean I am violating the GPL, no? For true GPL compliance wouldn't I have to provide the customer with Debian's sources and how to build them (even though I don't do this myself, or even know how).

But then, you have companies like Dell selling Ubuntu on some of their laptops, and they don't seem to provide sources/instructions at all. They use the stock Ubuntu installer.

So I'm a bit confused here.

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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#2 Post by arzgi »

You don't have to provide the actual sources,.

Many docs of Debian packages (/usr/shrare/doc/) include mention it's GPL. I wrote many, as i don't know have you used nonfree or others.

In the past you had to tell how to obtain sources. Nowadays almost everyone using computer has access to web.

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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#3 Post by fabien »

smallpotion wrote: 2022-05-09 09:20it would seem that step 1 where I use official Debian binaries instead of providing source + instructions to compile from source, mean I am violating the GPL, no?
I don't think so. You're violating the GPL if you modify a GPLed program and distribute it without distributing sources: in this case you have to make the sources public to be compliant with the original license.
Since the Debian sources are already available, you don't have to bother about publishing them.
Configuration is not a modification of programs.
If you develop proprietary programs that run on Debian, you have no obligation to divulge sources as far as you don't reuse GPLed (or similar) code (but of course proprietary code is evil :evil:)
Even your point 3) is not an obligation I think, but that's nice.

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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#4 Post by smallpotion »

I appreciate the input guys but I think you're wrong. If you look at https://www.linuxfoundation.org/wp-cont ... igital.pdf , page 3:

"The GPLv2 has a couple of important requirements. One is ensuring that a copy of the license is provided along with the distributed binary or source code (me: OK this is easy). The other is providing access to source code when distributing binary code either as a stand-alone software application or as part of a physical product (me: the annoying part). The GPL describes two ways to comply with the source code access requirement:
1. Accompany a product with the “complete and corresponding source code”
2. Include a written offer to supply the “complete and corresponding source code” (me: the FSF FAQ also says a source code dump isn't enough, build instructions are also needed)

So I do have to provide the sources, either now or in the future upon request. I'll go with the latter which buys me time and if a customer doesn't try to be annoying then I won't have to do anything. But I dread being asked to give source code. I'll have to learn more about Debian (building it and its packages) than I wished to. I'm just a user, not a maintainer :)

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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#5 Post by fabien »

smallpotion wrote: 2022-05-10 09:03"The GPLv2 has a couple of important requirements. One is ensuring that a copy of the license is provided along with the distributed binary or source code (me: OK this is easy).

Code: Select all

$> apt-file show vrms 

vrms: /etc/cron.monthly/vrms              
vrms: /usr/bin/vrms
vrms: /usr/share/doc/vrms/README.Debian
vrms: /usr/share/doc/vrms/changelog.gz
vrms: /usr/share/doc/vrms/copyright
vrms: /usr/share/lintian/overrides/vrms
vrms: /usr/share/man/man1/vrms.1.gz
vrms: /usr/share/vrms/reasons/vrms

$> cat /usr/share/doc/vrms/copyright

This package was debianized by Bdale Garbee <bdale@gag.com>
Stephen Moraco <stephen@debian.org> now helps maintain this package

It was written specifically for Debian GNU/Linux.

Authors: 	

	Perl Hacking		Bill Geddes <geddes@debian.org>
	Docs and Packaging	Bdale Garbee <bdale@debian.org>
	Miscellaneous Tasks	Rogério Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>

Copyright:

	Copyright (c) 1999-2005 by Bill Geddes, Bdale Garbee and Stephen Moraco
	Copyright (c) 2005, 2006, 2009 by Bdale Garbee and Rogério Brito

	This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
	modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
	as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
	of the License, or (at your option) any later version.

	This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
	but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
	MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
	GNU General Public License for more details.

A copy of the GNU General Public License is available on Debian-based 
systems as /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2.
smallpotion wrote: 2022-05-10 09:03The other is providing access to source code when distributing binary code either as a stand-alone software application or as part of a physical product (me: the annoying part).
If you feel better by cluttering your customer's system with sources (just joking, I understand your concern), Debian makes it easy for you
https://wiki.debian.org/Packaging/SourcePackage
https://www.linuxfordevices.com/tutoria ... rom-source

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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#6 Post by canci »

>The other is providing access to source code when distributing binary code either as a stand-alone software application or as part of a physical product

Wouldn't it be enough to just a.) have an admin account that just accesses a normal desktop or an ssh account that can just access a shell on that computer, and b.) have the machine connected to the internet, i.e. the user can, if they want to, get via apt-source all the gpl2 packages your programme is based on. Worst case scenario: you might maybe have the sources on the device's hard drive if it's meant to e offline, or just provide them with a USB stick with all the sources on it.
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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#7 Post by sunrat »

canci wrote: 2022-05-10 13:15 >The other is providing access to source code when distributing binary code either as a stand-alone software application or as part of a physical product

Wouldn't it be enough to just a.) have an admin account that just accesses a normal desktop or an ssh account that can just access a shell on that computer, and b.) have the machine connected to the internet, i.e. the user can, if they want to, get via apt-source all the gpl2 packages your programme is based on. Worst case scenario: you might maybe have the sources on the device's hard drive if it's meant to e offline, or just provide them with a USB stick with all the sources on it.
I believe it should be sufficient to supply to the client the URL/s where the source code can be obtained. The same as if you buy something like a TV and the source code link for any GPL components is provided in the manual.
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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#8 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

sunrat wrote: 2022-05-10 15:28 I believe it should be sufficient to supply to the client the URL/s where the source code can be obtained. The same as if you buy something like a TV and the source code link for any GPL components is provided in the manual.
I can confirm that such approach is sufficient.
I'm working for industry - and industrial devices are almost 100% Linux based (although usually not based on Debian - the Yocto project is AFAIN one of the most used platforms).
Anyway, it's sufficient to just provide the links to sources/licenses - and a manifest file with a list of package versions.
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Re: Can I distribute a Debian PC without having to supply source + build guide for every GPL package?

#9 Post by jmgibson1981 »

You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights.
Straight off of the v3 GPL - https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-3.0.en.html

Receive or can get. Doesn't say anything about making sure they have instant access to it. Your distro of choice has already done this for you. The notices are all over the system. The source is in repositories which are easy to enable.

*EDIT*

Worst case maybe just make sure your installation for them has all deb-src lines in the sources list uncommented. Then it's built in.

*EDIT 2*

Of course if you create your own software that ends up under GPL and it isn't in the repositories then it would be wise to include your source to prevent a future issue I suppose.

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