Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

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cpoakes
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#16 Post by cpoakes »

@alansmithee: Spoken like a lawyer. Maybe you operate with such a narrow definition of topic, but I dare say for most it includes anything in the title or content of the initial post, including the structure and tone of the content itself.

And suggesting that users with repetitive questions be reported to the volunteer moderators is a colossal waste of their time, not to mention the reinforcement of an authoritarian rather than cooperative culture.

v&n
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#17 Post by v&n »

cpoakes wrote:And suggesting that users with repetitive questions be reported to the volunteer moderators is a colossal waste of their time,
I don't think there was any *suggestion* to report *all* such posts to moderators, it was just an example scenario which indeed happens sometimes. Obviously an exhaustive list of all possible scenarios can't be covered in a thread post.
cpoakes wrote:not to mention the reinforcement of an authoritarian rather than cooperative culture.
..and lmgtfy/JFGI is in no way a 'cooperative culture'. These may not always be in an insulting sense, but they are not constructive either. Even a single line - "what have you tried so far" would be a much better answer. At least it would start building the thread in a constructive manner.

milomak
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#18 Post by milomak »

isn't this why the beginners forum was created?
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cpoakes
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#19 Post by cpoakes »

@v&n
alansmithee wrote:There is also an expectation that when encountering a post that violates the rules, one should report the post to the staff, not take it upon one's self to censure the poster.
I think alansmithee is pretty clear. Don't supply a JFGI response, report a violation.
v&n wrote:..and lmgtfy/JFGI is in no way a 'cooperative culture'. These may not always be in an insulting sense, but they are not constructive either. Even a single line - "what have you tried so far" would be a much better answer. At least it would start building the thread in a constructive manner.
I couldn't agree more. Earlier in the thread, I advocate a null response or leaving it to people who think the question is worth answering. If a user ultimately gets no reply, their only option is to become more resourceful. And if a moderator happens to notice, they can choose to make the point about forum expectations.

milomak
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#20 Post by milomak »

i generally agree.

but how do i mount an ntfs drive is a jfgi/lmgtfy response i reckon.

i also disagree with the op that jfgi/lmgtfy responses lead to useless responses being at the top of results.
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v&n
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#21 Post by v&n »

milomak wrote:but how do i mount an ntfs drive is a jfgi/lmgtfy response i reckon.
I very humbly disagree, due to my own personal experience.

When I tried Linux for the first time in my life, it was with Red Hat 9. Installed it alongside XP (with 128 MB RAM, 733 MHz Via C3 CPU), and the first thing that made any sense to me after seeing its desktop was one of the "Games" in its menus. Clicked it and it froze the computer right away. Made me believe Linux is too heavy for older hardware, but kept lurking into it for about next 6-8 months.

Now RH9 didn't even indicate the existence of other partitions (my windows partitions) in any obvious place, so that made me believe maybe that's how it works - only in its own partition, probably for good.

It wasn't before another year when I got my hands on a Live Ubuntu CD (7.04, found it with a magazine, given to my by a friend, I was student and costly magazines, internet etc. were luxuries I couldn't afford then), and realized Linux can actually work with windows partitions. Live session running directly from a CD was no less than a miracle to me (actually a long desired dream come true to me).

I was anything but a dumb computer user all this while. In my first 6 months with computers, without ANY guidance from a person or internet or other external sources, merely by reading software help files and tinkering, I had learnt..
..to create a bootable windows installation CD that could install 4 different versions from a single CD (win 3.11, 95, 98SE, ME),
..how to fit and run multiple cd-based games from a single CD (games that require their 'ORIGINAL' cd in the drive, able to identify copied ones and fail),
..how to edit registry to re-enable autorun (which was disabled by something once),
..how to create batch files and create autorun CDs that could autorun those batch files or a program in one of the folders or open a self-created Index web page listing (and hyperlinking) all the contents of the CD,
..how to fool a 3D game (Progect IGI to be precise, with missing data files in the installation source) to believe it is complete and not fail during installation..
..quite a few more things not worth listing here..

... but... I didn't know windows partitions could even be used with that RH9 installation of mine. Even when the Ubuntu Live CD told me they could, doing so via command line was an overwhelming big deal for me for quite some time!

So.. many things appear easy to us only because we are experienced in some respects while the newcomers may not be. Troubleshooting has become instinctive for some of us, while even using computers in new ways can be a difficult thing for many others - doesn't mean they are certainly dumb or lazy.

Having worked with students in an MBA college, I know that even "googling with correct search terms" can be surprisingly difficult for the brightest of the brains if they are not technically oriented. And I am writing this with my experience with a few brightest students of that college. They were the best in their regular studies, but among the dumbest when it came to computer troubleshooting, and it was definitely not for not trying.

Some of us here may point out - "why choose debian then when other easier distros are out there?". My answer is clear about this - remember my first distro was RH9? Because I knew no better. For me, Linux meant Red Hat at that time.

Sure those who come to these forums have the luxury of internet where they can get all the info required, not all their circumstances can be same as mine, but they can certainly be similar.

Being one of those who are keen to help, I have faced users who did make me angry only once or twice since 2010 (since I have been on forums). And at those occasions, I chose the better answers - "sorry, I may not be able to help you beyond this", or no response at all. LMGTFY was most certainly not going to make anything better.

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GarryRicketson
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#22 Post by GarryRicketson »

Well , this almost seems like a "trolling" topic to me, but anyway, The first time I encountered the response, " Google it ", to a question I asked, (not here on this forum), this was years ago,
Any way, I copied /pasted my question into the google search , and the most amazing thing occurred, I got results, a good variety of various answers to my question, many of the answers were taken from various forums, where the same question had been asked, so not only did I get the question answered, quickly, but I also found forums where that particular problem was being discussed, in fact that is how I found this forum, and I found the answer to my question.
Then if there are details, that are not answered after searching google, well, that is what a forum is for, ...90% of the time , I can get a question answered faster using google search, or other search engines, and no one needs to take the time to write another "tutorial", simply explaining something that has been explained and written 1000s of times, Suggesting to someone to learn how to use a search engine, Google, and all the others, is good advice, in fact for me that was some of the best advice I have received over the years, "Google it".
When I tell some one "google it" I am not trying to be "snarky",
If you really want to prove how snarky and obnoxious you are, post the url of a useful search at lmgtfy.com. Everybody knows about google,

or prove anything, I am trying to share the best advice I ever recieved, " Google it", inspite of the fact ,
Everybody knows about google,
well, they may have heard of google, but it does appear very few people know how to use the search engine, if you want to learn more on how to use google "google it".

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aicardi
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#23 Post by aicardi »

+1 ^^
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jsalpha2
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#24 Post by jsalpha2 »

When you ask a question here, you assume that the people here are more familiar with Debian and more likely to have the best correct answer. On a Google search you get hundreds of answers that may or may not be correct and if you follow the incorrect advise it may hose your system and or waist your time. When someone says "Google it" it means they have no idea what the correct answer is or that they don't want to be bothered helping you. (In which case, why do they even post at all?) It is a type of cyber bullying. They are saying. "I know the answer, but you are not worth helping." Even if you start your question with "I have already searched the forum, read the manual and Google searched before I posted; you may still get some of these hateful, UN-helpful responses. Just ignore those people and someone who will help will be along sooner or later.

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cpoakes
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#25 Post by cpoakes »

jsalpha2 wrote:.. It is a type of cyber bullying.
I am calling you out for the misuse of jargon and reducing the argument to the type of name-calling embodied in Godwin's Law.

According to the Cyberbullying Research Center, their definition is:
Cyberbullying: Intentional and repeated harm inflicted through the use of computers, cell phones, and other electronic devices.
JFGI may be rude, but hardly qualifies as intentional and repeated harm.

johnc0123456789
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#26 Post by johnc0123456789 »

Garry, I assure you that my creating this thread was not just to stir the pot. It really is the result of me searching for things I want to do/know and finding countless topics with people JFGIing others with the same question as me. I know how to use a search engine and I usually only get harassment when I post a question to forums, so I usually give up if I google something and don't get an answer. I got my degree in computer science and I have worked in the SEO industry, so I'm a much more competent google user than most people. Really I'm a lot more competent than 99% of people with any topic pertaining to computers, but I also have a shred of empathy for people who don't have my education and experience, and as this thread shows, there are a lot of people whose lives are so pathetic and meaningless that they really get a kick out of insulting people who aren't as knowledgeable and experienced.

How about this. What if your mother decided to try out debian and had some questions about it? Maybe she would be overwhelmed and show up at the forum. She would read the stickies about what to do before posting a question, follow the advice, and most of the time she would be able to find an old thread on this or another website. But sometimes she won't have the right search phrase, and maybe in the dozens of issues she would face, one or two would seem to her worth asking about. Do you want her to find a bunch of obnoxious verbal abuse, or would you want her to find a supportive community that shows her how to help herself and puts her in a position to help others?

Maybe you're so advanced and smart that you can't be bothered to answer questions about wifi dongles or whatever else. I think that's fine, I respect your experience and I wish I knew as much as you. But the question I am raising is what is to be gained by harassing these clueless people. If somebody asks a question that is beneath you, just ignore it. People with empathy like me will try to help them, insulting them will only turn a future debian guru into somebody who pays for a mac or windows.

And to those who have questioned whether posting responses to a topic raises its pagerank, I can't prove my assertion because pagerank isn't an open source algorithm. But I think once you've been around the web long enough, you can recognize a page that is build for SEO. We used to have our pages reorder the sentences to look like it was being updated and pay people in India to write fake blog posts, not because we thought any human would read them, but because it is common knowledge in the SEO industry that a page with changing text is seen by the crawlers as an active blog/news site, so the rank is bumped up. Believe me or not, I don't care, just stop polluting the web with your self-righteous crap.

Bulkley
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#27 Post by Bulkley »

johnc0123456789 wrote:How about this. What if your mother decided to try out debian and had some questions about it? Maybe she would be overwhelmed and show up at the forum. She would read the stickies about what to do before posting a question, follow the advice, and most of the time she would be able to find an old thread on this or another website.
That's the problem, so many show up on forums without having done even that much. It's a universal problem, not just here.

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mardybear
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#28 Post by mardybear »

Googling the forum archives, rather than utilizing the sucky search box, often provides quick resolution to most queries.

Code: Select all

site:forums.debian.net enter_search_term_here
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dasein
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#29 Post by dasein »

johnc0123456789 wrote:Garry, I assure you that my creating this thread was not just to stir the pot.
R-i-i-i-i-i-ght. A person with zero history of substantive contribution to a community plops down a 400-word self-confessed "rant" full of ad hominem, sanctimonious moralizing, and misinformation on a topic that has precisely zero to do with the focus of the community. But any resemblance whatsoever to trolling is just an Incredible Cosmic Coincidence.

Image
(I gotta get me some new facepalms.)
I got my degree in computer science...
If that's all you got, I wouldn't try throwing down c.v. around here.
What if your mother...
:lol: My mother would be leading the JFGI brigade. (And I thank her everyday for it.)
And to those who have questioned whether posting responses to a topic raises its pagerank, I can't prove my assertion... pagerank isn't an open source algorithm.
But we should trust you because you're so much smarter than everyone else. You have arcane insight unavailable to us mere mortals. Yeah. Sure.

Here's the thing: the word data is not the plural of the word anecdote. (No, not even when they are your anecdotes.)

No. Churn does not raise page rank, and anyone who imagines that it does is... um...profoundly mistaken and hasn't learned that the post hoc fallacy is the surest, quickest way to make a complete fool of oneself.

Specific details are of course proprietary, but Google has publicly documented the basic operation of the PageRank algorithm. (And I can prove my assertion. So sorry to hear that you can't.)
...self-righteous crap.
(And this from an authority on the subject!)

And on that cheery note, I am so done feeding this particular troll. For the benefit of those who would care to join me: http://forums.debian.net/ucp.php?i=zebr ... 0123456789

johnc0123456789
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#30 Post by johnc0123456789 »

Huh. Musta struck a nerve with that guy. Why can't we all just be nice?

To his assertions about pagerank, well SEO is an entire industry built on guesses, conjecture, and reverse engineering. Google has no incentive to give away how their algorithm works. Don't think fresh content bumps up your rank? Then why do people do this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_farm

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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#31 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Speaking personally, any responses I make on this forum tend to be entirely selfish in nature.

I run Arch ([testing]) & Debian (Sid) in the hope and expectation of encountering regular breakage that will force me to learn more about my system in the process of repairing said b0rkage.

Sadly both systems have been a disappointment in this respect -- Arch [testing] had a GCC update to version 5 yesterday with major API/ABI* changes and my system just booted and carried on as if nothing had happened...
:(

I hope Sid will prove more challenging in the coming weeks now that the freeze has ended.

In the meantime I scour the forums for users who foolishly offer up their problems to others and devour them hungrily (if not entirely successfully).

IMO the JFGI brigade are doing the posters a great favour by encouraging them to develop their system administration skills independently; I don't consider it to be "cyber bullying" at all.

* Probably the wrong terminology but you know what I mean.
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GarryRicketson
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#32 Post by GarryRicketson »

How about this. What if your mother decided to try out debian and had some questions about it? Maybe she would be overwhelmed and show up at the forum.
My mother is dead.
I got my degree in computer science and I have worked in the SEO industry, so I'm a much more competent google user than most people. Really I'm a lot more competent than 99% of people with any topic pertaining to computers, but I also have a shred of empathy for people who don't have my education and experience, and as this thread shows, there are a lot of people whose lives are so pathetic and meaningless that they really get a kick out of insulting people who aren't as knowledgeable and experienced.
Hmm, ok well now I understand, I do not have any degrees, in fact never finsished the 5th grade, which is why I use google search so much, I need to in order to learn the things I am trying to learn about, and it workd quite well for me, but unfortunately the SEO s, and "marketing engineers", have done every thing they can to mess it up with their advertising, and putting useless advertisement links all over the internet, SEO = spammer , Marketing Engineer = spammer, just fancy names "highly educated" paper chasers with lots of degrees come up with.
If some one is "insulted" because someone else suggests they try using the search engines, that is their problem, maybe they need a Psychiatrist.
But sometimes she won't have the right search phrase
Usually that is the problem for most people, getting the right search phrase, some one with a small amount of intelligence, at least one would think so, like me for example, no degrees,schooling etc,..so if and when I do not find any useful results with google or any other search engines, then I ask on a forum,
I tried using google to answer my question, using these key words "the key words or phrase I used ", but I did not get any results that could help me,
Then probably I also include some details to my circumstance, ...usually that results in some one suggesting a better way to phrase the question, or key words, or sometimes, when some details are included, some one knows the answer,
What causes me more problems with the search engines, is
but because it is common knowledge in the SEO industry that a page with changing text is seen by the crawlers as an active
The SEO wizards with their "degrees", are constantaly using any forum,website ,blog, where ever they can to put in their phrases and garbage,which causes the search engine to give us results that are mostly advertisements, or completely irrelevant to what we are searching for.
On a Google search you get hundreds of answers that may or may not be correct and if you follow the incorrect advise it may hose your system and or waist your time
If someone is not sure about what they find on google, they should post and ask about it, people will tell them , which answer is best, if they also explain enough details.
When someone says "Google it" it means they have no idea what the correct answer is or that they don't want to be bothered helping you. (In which case, why do they even post at all?) It is a type of cyber bullying. They are saying. "I know the answer, but you are not worth helping."
Well often, that is true, I don't know the answer to the question, but I do like to learn, and also try to help someone, so when I see a question that interests me, but do know really how to solve it,..That is how I get the answers, I use google, and usually get good results, so when I see that they can find the answer as well, using google, I often wonder why they did not do that, ... often there is to much material, and variables to simply answer the question on a few words, but the results on google show there is a lot of info on the problem, that is the best way to start, looking through the information available, ..
When I suggest to someone that they try using google, I usually include the key words I used that yielded good results, I am suggesting to use google, because I have found good results, that might help them. But if they are to stupid to see that, and get offended, well, that is to bad, they can wait and see if someone else helps them, or what ever,..
But all of this is redicules, which is why I still think the only purpose of this thread was to start arguments, troll,..
It does not matter to me, what arguments you have, I for one , will still suggest to people that they try using google or a search engine, and I will still continue to try to help them with the key words that I used, then if there is something they don't understand with the answer,and if I can I will try to help clarify or explain it, if I can't, some one else will.
Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?
The answer to that is really quite simple, I respond to question, with "google it", because I have googled it , and found good ,usefull results, and I believe that is the case for most of the others ,when they suggest that someone google it.
All the wild accusations, "cyber bullying", "trying to be snarky",..
I think you need to follow your own advice
t is common knowledge in the SEO industry that a page with changing text is seen by the crawlers as an active blog/news site, so the rank is bumped up. Believe me or not, I don't care, just stop polluting the web with your self-righteous crap.
Yes, I wish the SEOs and marketing engineers would stop polluting the web with their "self-righteous crap" and advertising, but that is another subject.

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alansmithee
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#33 Post by alansmithee »

GarryRicketson wrote:
Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?
The answer to that is really quite simple, I respond to question, with "google it", because I have googled it , and found good ,usefull results, and I believe that is the case for most of the others ,when they suggest that someone google it.
Unless you have disabled Google's semantic searching, the results you see will be specific to what Google knows about your proclivities and location. Part of the reason "most others" found good useful results to questions about Debian is that they've been using Debian -- and Google -- for many years and Google caters the results to their history of searches.

Even if you depersonalize your search by using Tor, disabling cookies, or changing your browser preferences, the person to whom you are responding may not have. There is no guarantee that their search will produce similar results to yours (add to this the effect that differing locales and participation in social media sites might have).

If you've found good, useful results through your search, why not link to one of those directly? Why introduce an unreliable, inexact intermediary -- especially one whose business model is premised on tracking and logging one's search queries.
'alansmithee' is the user formerly known as 'saulgoode'.

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dasein
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#34 Post by dasein »

All true, which is exactly why startpage is just too handy. It makes it impossible to "bubble" the results. Google goodness without their accursed "personalization." The results for a given query are the same for everyone.

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GarryRicketson
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Re: Why do people respond to questions with "google it"?

#35 Post by GarryRicketson »

If you've found good, useful results through your search, why not link to one of those directly?

Some times I do, it all depends on the circumastances, often the results are various, and the person with the question , should be able to find which ones fit his/her problem best,..
Some times it would be easy to copy, what I find, and paste it into the reply , however that could cause problems , copying stuff from another site, and using it here,..
I have noticed , most of the time, when it is a question that has enough details with it, and also it is something that is rare, or unique, and not much or nothing comes up in a search, that is when some of the most experienced members do start giving suggestions as to what to try, in order to figure out what is causing the problem,and how to solve it.
The posts that get answered with "search google", are questions that there are literally 1000s of tutorials,and solutions all ready available, all ready written,..it is obvious the person is either to lazy to use the search engine, or does not know how, and there is nothing wrong with that, every one needs to learn, but then this forum is not about "how to use the search engines", if they don't know how to do that, they should google it, once they learn how to use it, and if they get results that confuse them, then they could ask, here it says "do this and that" but on the other it says " Do that first then this", so Do I do THAT first or This,..bla bla,.. quite often, the best adivice might be to download a copy of all the linux commands, and some good tutorial on linux and unix, It all depends on the question, and how the OP words his/her question.
Sometimes it is that simple, no need to suggest google search, simpley post a little code, or script,..IE: some one asks,
"How do I see what directories and files are in my system, from the linux terminal ?" answer:

Code: Select all

cd /
#then type
ls
To find out more about the commands, use google search " linux commands",...Which if they had done that in the first place, they never would have needed to ask the question.
Trying to get people to use a search engine, is good advice, in the long run it will help them, but if they want to act like babies, and cry about how it offends them, because they were told to "google it",..well that is their loss,and problem, they will continue through life, being whiny , ignorant, babies.

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