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Criticizing Debian against the rules?

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maxb
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Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#1 Post by maxb »

Is criticizing Debian against the rules of these forums?

Please explain why this topic's been closed: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=150626

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#2 Post by ticojohn »

The reason for being closed was stated in the final post. As far I as I know there are no rules against criticism. But one should probably read viewforum.php?f=12 to ensure that the forum rules on conduct are not being violated.
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#3 Post by maxb »

This question is for the moderators. I read the stated "reason":
Topic locked due to getting too silly.
I think a more detailed explanation is appropriate. What's getting silly? Which rules were violated and by whom?

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#4 Post by maxb »

While we are discussing this thread, please explain why it was moved from "Questions", where it was originally posted. This was literally a question. I had been under the impression that Debian provided timely security updates to all software in Stable. Now I know that this is not the case, but it was a question at the time it was posted. Was the moderator action taken against this thread because it included quotes critical of Debian?

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#5 Post by sunrat »

OK more explanation. It was closed because it was starting to descend into personal attack territory which is definitely against forum guidelines. Also it contained a lot of uninformed speculation and misinformation.
It was moved as it was posted in the section for support whereas it was more of a philosophy question for which I deemed the current discussion section to be appropriate.
Criticising Debian is not against the rules but trolling or ad hominem attacks most certainly are.
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#6 Post by anticapitalista »

Wasn't it maxb who added the 'solved' label? In effect maxb closed it.

viewtopic.php?p=745520#p745520
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#7 Post by cynwulf »

So, so predictable... is this now going to be spun as the Debian project covering up all those open bugs you've been ranting about? *YAWN*
anticapitalista wrote: 2021-11-12 09:17 Wasn't it maxb who added the 'solved' label? In effect maxb closed it.

viewtopic.php?p=745520#p745520
This OP consistently marks "solved" when they believe they've coaxed their predetermined, biased conclusions from a thread - or when it's run it's course and doesn't seem to be going their way...

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#8 Post by trinidad »

Vague discussions about computer security are always fruitless. There really is no such thing. All there is, is informed vigilance, and that is in fact the model of all digital security measures. Many many things are defined as security issues when in fact they are often only a matter of uninformed user praxis. "Security" is a "hot" word that generally triggers uninformed opinions. Should a user enter a discussion about CVEs and so forth without reading and understanding what they actually mean? What is the user seeking? Reassurance? Can't give it. No digital device is secure.

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#9 Post by southern_admin »

sunrat wrote: 2021-11-12 04:46OK more explanation. It was closed because it was starting to descend into personal attack territory which is definitely against forum guidelines. Also it contained a lot of uninformed speculation and misinformation.
It was moved as it was posted in the section for support whereas it was more of a philosophy question for which I deemed the current discussion section to be appropriate.
Criticising Debian is not against the rules but trolling or ad hominem attacks most certainly are.
Looking at this guy's posting history, I'd say it's only a matter of time before he's banned from here and elsewhere. Around here we call these types of people "sh_t stirrers."

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#10 Post by cynwulf »

These are the actions of a troll with a grudge. Linux hasn't worked out so well for him, so this little game is just him lashing out to make himself feel better about it all. His links to blogs posted by anonymous critics and "security researchers" expose the mindest of someone who contributes nothing, but sits on the sidelines pouring scorn on others' work.

It's also rather telling that he attacks the perceived "fans", rather than addressing the projects/developers directly. This shows the real resentment towards those who have had success with these OS.

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#11 Post by cds60601 »

cynwulf wrote: 2021-11-13 13:49 It's also rather telling that he attacks the perceived "fans", rather than addressing the projects/developers directly. This shows the real resentment towards those who have had success with these OS.
Possibly a Windows/Mac fan-boy?
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#12 Post by ticojohn »

cds60601 wrote: 2021-11-13 14:31
cynwulf wrote: 2021-11-13 13:49 It's also rather telling that he attacks the perceived "fans", rather than addressing the projects/developers directly. This shows the real resentment towards those who have had success with these OS.
Possibly a Windows/Mac fan-boy?
It really shouldn't matter what OS he is a fan of, coming to a user help forum for ANY OS, and then doing nothing but ranting about the OS supported by that forum is, in my opinion, just another example of a degrading society. The internet, and in particular social media, has provided people with some degree of anonymity so they use that to vent their frustration at the exclusion of being polite, gracious and respectful. Maybe because I am an old fart, and grew up in a different era, I see things differently.
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#13 Post by cds60601 »

ticojohn wrote: 2021-11-13 18:37 It really shouldn't matter what OS he is a fan of, coming to a user help forum for ANY OS, and then doing nothing but ranting about the OS supported by that forum is, in my opinion, just another example of a degrading society. The internet, and in particular social media, has provided people with some degree of anonymity so they use that to vent their frustration at the exclusion of being polite, gracious and respectful. Maybe because I am an old fart, and grew up in a different era, I see things differently.
Agreed. I too see things as you do including being an old fart ;)
Nothing wrong with criticism, it just has to be done in the correct way.
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#14 Post by CwF »

cds60601 wrote: 2021-11-13 21:42 Nothing wrong with criticism, it just has to be done in the correct way.
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#15 Post by donald »

Image
Typo perfectionish.


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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#16 Post by canci »

Max, you have to write it more like you would on Reddit or any of your other commercial sites:

"OMG!!!! Is criticizing Debian against the rules?????? #obligatoryoutragehashtag"
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#17 Post by Marie SWE »

donald wrote: 2021-11-15 11:27 Image
ohh so cute :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#18 Post by Edimion »

there are many things users complian of Debian, much of them by the options by default

but WHY Debian NEVER make a poll for what options they could like to have at the beginning on a clear installation? for example if you don't have a Ethernet cables it's really difficult to connect through wifi

maybe criticizing is too much Debian developers could like to ear but POLLS of any options must be done

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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#19 Post by anticapitalista »

Ever heard of popcorn?
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Re: Criticizing Debian against the rules?

#20 Post by steve_v »

Edimion wrote: 2022-04-26 15:38WHY Debian NEVER make a poll for what options they could like to have at the beginning on a clear installation?
Because Debian is not Ubuntu or any of the other desktop-oriented easy-mode distros, and it is anticipated that prospective users are able and willing to read documentation and make intelligent decisions?
Or, maybe because embedded platform integrators, webmasters, and the sysadmins for building-sized supercomputers don't care about polls, and a fair portion of Debian's userbase really isn't using it to browse social media on their personal laptop?
Edimion wrote: 2022-04-26 15:38if you don't have a Ethernet cables it's really difficult to connect through wifi
Manufacturers of wireless chipsets being too cheap to include a hardware eeprom, and instead providing (often incredibly buggy) firmware as closed-source non-free binaries is not Debian's fault, nor is it Debian's problem.
Likewise said manufacturers failing to provide support or drivers, such that we rely on volunteers to do the same.

If you want better and more streamlined support for such hardware, your choices are to: a) pitch in and help with reverse-engineering, writing drivers, and coming up with ways to include this firmware garbage fire while still being a FOSS distribution by default... Or b) go hassle the manufacturer into supporting their products properly on a not-Windows OS.
Edimion wrote: 2022-04-26 15:38POLLS of any options must be done
Why? We already have a polling system, it's called a bugtracker.
FOSS development (and by extension Debian development) was largely born of a meritocracy and/or do-ocracy based community, one where those who put in the effort and do the work get to make the decisions.
If you want to submit some bug reports, patches or RFEs, there's nobody stopping you. Likewise if you want to grab the sources for the installer and make it better suit your needs, or even fork and remaster the whole distro... Who knows, others might even like your changes and run with them.

But polls? Nah. The only thing worse than software developed by comittee is development directed by popularity polls.
All polls will achieve is a bunch of largely non-contributing people armchair-quarterbacking for (and whining about) features that they're unwilling to put effort into themselves... Even more than they do already.
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