Why was my thread removed?

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Ahtiga Saraz
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Why was my thread removed?

#1 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

I am asking here because no moderator contacted me to provide notice or explanation.
Ahtiga Saraz

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kevmitch
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#2 Post by kevmitch »

I don't believe the moderators would contact you if they chose to remove your thread. It would have to basically be spam or extremely inflammatory to be considered for removal. What was it about?

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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#3 Post by Loomx »

I read (part of) it. Very interesting.
It was about tor and censorship...







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golinux
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#4 Post by golinux »

kevmitch wrote:What was it about?
Paranoid, political, conspiracy stuff on a grand scale that went on forever. "They" may be out to get us in 1000 ways but worrying about it isn't going to change anything except make us miserable in the here and now. :) And since the world is already unreliable, fraught with suffering and not under our control it doesn't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other to me.
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#5 Post by oswaldkelso »

kevmitch wrote:I don't believe the moderators would contact you if they chose to remove your thread. It would have to basically be spam or extremely inflammatory to be considered for removal. What was it about?
It was called
Human Rights, Tor, and State Sponsored Surveillance
It was probably removed as it was deemed to political. http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10653

The following might get your post REMOVED
- Advertising/ Spamming
- Obviously racist/ sexist/ hateful content
- Obviously political/ religious content
- Obvious pornographic content
golinux wrote:
kevmitch wrote:What was it about?
Paranoid, political, conspiracy stuff on a grand scale that went on forever. "They" may be out to get us in 1000 ways but worrying about it isn't going to change anything except make us miserable in the here and now. :) And since the world is already unreliable, fraught with suffering and not under our control it doesn't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other to me.
I didn't think it paranoid, far from it. It was well argued with much to back it up. Whether writing about it is going to change anything, only time will tell. Not your cup of tea maybe, and while you may have given up to those that control you many have not.
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#6 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

@Loomx, oswaldkelso,

Thank you for the "interesting", "well-argued". If anyone kept a copy and is willing to PM it to me, my work might not be lost.

[EDIT 1900 UTC: Someone has sent me a copy. Many thanks!]

@golinux,

A few decades ago my attitude closely resembled yours, and life was somewhat less impossible. From my personal experience, coming under personal attack by the secret police can alter such an attitude in a heartbeat. I hope you will consider following some of the links I provided (if you kept a copy) and then read https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _they_came and then decide whether you wish to modify your position.
It was probably removed as it was deemed to political.
The moderator who removed it, whoever he/she was, has not deigned to give their point of view, but from my point of view, I was trying to discuss the little known hazards of using Tor, something which I presume many of us do at least occasionally, and also discuss what I regard as the misbehavior of companies like Cisco with which many sysadmins deal on a daily basis in their work. I thought that would interest other Linux users. Apparently I am not the only one who thinks Cisco (and American prosecutors) are behaving rather badly on the international stage:
Whether writing about it is going to change anything, only time will tell.
Spycos like Gamma Group, Cisco, secret police agencies.... these are powerful entities with a global reach. So I suppose I should expect them to change me long before anything changes in the wider world. I spend my days listening for the sound of the midnight knock on the door... or an incoming Hellfire missile. In the mean time, I can dream that even American war criminals will one day face open trial in the International Criminal Court.

"A time comes when silence is betrayal" Martin Luther King
Last edited by Ahtiga Saraz on 2011-07-22 18:50, edited 1 time in total.
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sossego
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#7 Post by sossego »

Even this board is dictated by the personal and public political views of the owner and the Debian organization. Emulating the behavior of debianuserforums.org and creating either an abyss or a truly off topic section would be better.
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What owner? What publically expressed views?

#8 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

personal and public political views ... owner
Links? I don't know what you are talking about. Possibly I should.
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#9 Post by sossego »

You can ask craigevil about what I am referring to.

The Debian Social Contract is a political document. People will follow it with religious fervor.

Any post that is removed is done so based upon that moderator's or administrator's personal interpretation of the board rules. No human has the ability to be completely objective and honest without causing self harm.
Last edited by sossego on 2011-07-22 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
Let my desire and hope surpass my expectations;
And give me the strength to persevere through doubt.
Grant me the wisdom to exceed my bounds.
Let my eyes always see through the dream fog of childhood,
so that every moment may be treasured.

Ahtiga Saraz
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Can I?

#10 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

Looks like craigevil has disabled PMs.

Speaking of social-networking security, is there something about PMs at this board which you know and I do not?

(I know that moderators can read any PM they want, so if it's that, I already know.)
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#11 Post by sossego »

The disabling of private messages is to prevent retaliation due to personal ignorance- all are included on this statement. In doing such, craigevil and the others prevent people from representing and defending themselves. Humans have a tendency to disagree and fight; this is normal. Censoring others and creating a constricting environment reflects the ideas of Huxley's Brave New World.
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#12 Post by craigevil »

Simple enough:
The following might get your post REMOVED
- Advertising/ Spamming
- Obviously racist/ sexist/ hateful content
- Obviously political/ religious content
- Obvious pornographic content

Go blog about it instead of posting it on forums.

Technically it wasn't removed it was moved to Spam. It was a mile long and while it was about Tor it was more about the political problems than the technical and as such doesn't belong on this forum.
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Ahtiga Saraz
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My errant thread

#13 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

Technically it wasn't removed it was moved to Spam.
"Spam"? Is that a nonpublic subforum at DUF? I can't find it.
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Re: My errant thread

#14 Post by 4D696B65 »

Ahtiga Saraz wrote: "Spam"? Is that a nonpublic subforum at DUF? I can't find it.
Correct, it can be seen by staff only.

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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#15 Post by golinux »

oswaldkelso wrote:
golinux wrote:"They" may be out to get us in 1000 ways but worrying about it isn't going to change anything except make us miserable in the here and now. :) And since the world is already unreliable, fraught with suffering and not under our control it doesn't make a whole lot of difference one way or the other to me.
. . . while you may have given up to those that control you many have not.
I don't think you really understood what I was trying to say. External controls may limit a certain kind of freedom. But the mind is limitless. Ultimately the only 'control' that matters is in your own head. That is where bondage or liberation arise regardless of external circumstances. That being said, I am not exactly 'uninvolved' in trying to stem the madness that is overtaking us. I just do it with a great deal of detachment. :)
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Re: Why was my thread removed?

#16 Post by Mr James »

craigevil wrote:while it was about Tor it was more about the political problems than the technical and as such doesn't belong on this forum.
Oh please. I live in a geographical location whose authorities deem the word pr0xy evil and thus prevent me from downloading anything whose name contains those four letters in sequence, including the dependencies of Gnome and KDE, thus forcing me to abort installation, use an http pr0xy, manually download the file, rename the file to it's correct name, manually stick it in /var/cache/apt/archives/ and continue the install.
Discussing that and the workaround is obviously political yet is preventing me from installing Debian normally - obviously technical.

Just about anything can be made to be "obviously" anything. Why do we need security? To protect ourselves from intruders. Like who? Governments. Thread deleted - obviously political content.
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Ahtiga Saraz
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@ moderators: can I try again?

#17 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

I don't come here often enough to know, so please forgive me for asking an elementary question about this forum: do the moderators have colorized names in the sidebar, like craigevil? I am finding it difficult to keep track of who is a moderator in this discussion, and who is not.

@ Mr James:

Yes, agreed, sometimes discussing a technical problem (or security problem) requires mention of political issues; we have provided two examples in this thread.

@ craigevil:

What is one supposed to do in such a case?

I think it is important to publicize the pervasive surveillance of Tor traffic by dozens of private spycos allied with various national intelligence agencies, since so many of us feel we have no alternative to Tor in order to use the internet at all. And these days, never going on-line is virtually synonymous with not living.

I think that sometimes some slack should be cut. Maybe we can meet in the middle? With a little help from a moderator, I might be able to find some way to discuss pervasive surveillance of Tor traffic by various parties, while avoiding as far as possible any attempt to explain the rather complicated political background issues which have given rise to such surveillance. Could I get permission to try again?
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Re: @ moderators: can I try again?

#18 Post by 4D696B65 »

Ahtiga Saraz wrote:I don't come here often enough to know, so please forgive me for asking an elementary question about this forum: do the moderators have colorized names in the sidebar, like craigevil? I am finding it difficult to keep track of who is a moderator in this discussion, and who is not.
http://forums.debian.net/memberlist.php?mode=leaders
Ahtiga Saraz wrote:What is one supposed to do in such a case?
I think that sometimes some slack should be cut. Maybe we can meet in the middle? Could I get permission to try again?
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10653
11. If you feel like your post/ thread has been locked, edited or even removed in error please contact the moderator team via e-mail at team@forums.debian.net.

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All in our head?

#19 Post by Ahtiga Saraz »

@ 4D696B65:

Thank you, those links are very helpful, and I have bookmarked them.

@ golinux:
Ultimately the only 'control' that matters is in your own head. That is where bondage or liberation arise regardless of external circumstances.
Sounds like you have thought about this, so I want to make sure I do not misunderstand you. If it would not be "too political" to ask: are you saying that slavery or freedom is a matter of attitude? I don't think Frederick Douglass would agree with that at all!

If it would not be "too political" for me to recommend some books which I think should interest anyone interested in the history of American slavery c. 1776:
  • Simon Schama, Rough Crossing
  • Rhys Isaac, Landon Carter's Uneasy Kingdom
  • Andrew Levy, The First Emancipator
Although it might "too political" for me to elaborate, I believe that slavery/indentured-servitude/debt c. 1776 is more relevant than slavery c. 1862 to present-day problems.
That being said, I am not exactly 'uninvolved' in trying to stem the madness that is overtaking us. I just do it with a great deal of detachment.
If you'd like to elaborate, I am curious.
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Re: All in our head?

#20 Post by golinux »

Ahtiga Saraz wrote:@ golinux:
Ultimately the only 'control' that matters is in your own head. That is where bondage or liberation arise regardless of external circumstances.
. . . are you saying that slavery or freedom is a matter of attitude?
Obviously, oppression in any form is unacceptable.

However, you misinterpreted the word 'bondage' as 'slavery' which was not at all what I had intended. I used the word 'bondage' because the mind 'binds' to pleasant or unpleasant objects usually with attachment or aversion. That knee jerk reaction 'binds' the mind to external stimuli which are ultimately out of our control. A well-trained mind can remain unruffled by the whiplash of emotion, ie. mental suffering, regardless of extreme mental or physical circumstances.
Ahtiga Saraz wrote:If it would not be "too political" for me to recommend some books . . .
No Howard Zinn or Noam Chomsky?
Ahtiga Saraz wrote:
That being said, I am not exactly 'uninvolved' in trying to stem the madness that is overtaking us. I just do it with a great deal of detachment.
If you'd like to elaborate, I am curious.
Have been trying to get GMOs out of the food supply since the early 90s and network around the globe to do so. Also active in local issues such as water rights and/or degraded quality of life stemming from irresponsible development and/or corporate negligence etc. One person cannot do everything . . . only one small part as the planet and civil society spiral into extinction.
Last edited by golinux on 2011-07-25 04:05, edited 2 times in total.
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