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Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

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stuck in this forum
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Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#1 Post by stuck in this forum »

I'm planning to install Debian Bullseye on a dual-boot setup on my computer via the net installer: I currently have Windows 10 and Manjaro installed, the latter of which I plan to replace with Debian. I plan to handle partitioning manually, but have a couple of questions with regards to how to manage said partitions:
  • Will any issues come up with using the Manjaro installation's /home partition on the Debian installation without reformatting it besides needing to reinstall my programs? I expect my username and user ID will be the same on both.
  • Should I reformat my /boot/efi partition or leave it as-is?
  • How do I keep the installer from altering my Windows partitions? Would instructing the installer to 1) not use the partitions and 2) not format said partitions suffice?
Researching these topics myself has returned few relevant results, none of which I found satisfactory. Please keep in mind that I'm new to Debian and to this forum when responding, though I do have some knowledge of Linux in general.

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#2 Post by leonavis »

1. I don't think that's a good idea, tried it in the past but didn't work for me. Just try it out and if it goes wrong you can still reformat.
2. You should. Is Windows on a seperate SSD? Because otherwise formatting would delete the Windows Boot Loader entry.
3. Just don't tell it to alter them. The installer does not do what you don't specifically tell it to do.

In general, since you're coming from Manjaro, it's not that different under Debian. If you already were capable of creating a dual-boot with Manjaro, it should pose no problem for you to do the same with Debian.

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#3 Post by sunrat »

stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 05:26 Will any issues come up with using the Manjaro installation's /home partition on the Debian installation without reformatting it besides needing to reinstall my programs? I expect my username and user ID will be the same on both.
User home contains many hidden configuration files and folders and Manjaro ones may not be compatible. Best to back up your data and copy it back to a fresh /home without the hidden files. Personally I prefer to have home included in the root (/) partition and create a separate partition just for data. This can be symlinked back to home.
Should I reformat my /boot/efi partition or leave it as-is?
/boot/efi is where the ESP (EFI system partition) is mounted inside /. Don't touch the ESP as it contains Windows boot files. The installer will create /boot/efi and set it up for the new install and (usually) will automatically detect and configure Windows boot as well.
How do I keep the installer from altering my Windows partitions? Would instructing the installer to 1) not use the partitions and 2) not format said partitions suffice?
Yes.
I always use the full install image or usually the netinstall to set up multiboot, and set up partitions manually. If you select "Advanced Install" in the initial screen there are better options available. Haven't used the live image for ages so not sure if it handles multiboot well.
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Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#4 Post by stuck in this forum »

Thanks to all for the responses.
sunrat wrote: 2021-11-28 05:58 User home contains many hidden configuration files and folders and Manjaro ones may not be compatible. Best to back up your data and copy it back to a fresh /home without the hidden files. Personally I prefer to have home included in the root (/) partition and create a separate partition just for data. This can be symlinked back to home.
Good to know regarding compatibility. I have a number of configuration files (e.g. Wine data) I'd like to move back to my home folder. Any advice on which ones to move and which ones not to? If it's any help, I plan to use the same desktop environment (XFCE) for both.
sunrat wrote: 2021-11-28 05:58 /boot/efi is where the ESP (EFI system partition) is mounted inside /. Don't touch the ESP as it contains Windows boot files. The installer will create /boot/efi and set it up for the new install and (usually) will automatically detect and configure Windows boot as well.
Looking at my partition table, it appears my /boot/efi partition is distinct from my EFI system partition - I suspect this is a result of GRUB. How would this impact this response?
leonavis wrote: 2021-11-28 05:50 2. You should. Is Windows on a seperate SSD? Because otherwise formatting would delete the Windows Boot Loader entry.
Windows is on the same SSD. How would I get around this deletion? How would the relevant properties of my partition table mentioned above come into play here?

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#5 Post by p.H »

stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 05:26 I currently have Windows 10 and Manjaro installed, the latter of which I plan to replace with Debian
Will you delete Manjaro during the Debian installation, or later when you have everything working in Debian ?
stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 05:26 Will any issues come up with using the Manjaro installation's /home partition on the Debian installation without reformatting it besides needing to reinstall my programs? I expect my username and user ID will be the same on both.
See @sunrat's reply about incompatible user config files. Of course you can wipe them and keep the data files.
stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 05:26 Should I reformat my /boot/efi partition or leave it as-is?
Leave it as is. You can remove Manjaro's boot files (and EFI boot entry) at anytime.
stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 05:26 How do I keep the installer from altering my Windows partitions? Would instructing the installer to 1) not use the partitions and 2) not format said partitions suffice?
Yes.
leonavis wrote: 2021-11-28 05:50 The installer does not do what you don't specifically tell it to do.
This is not true. By default the classic installer manual partitioning does things you did not tell it to do such as use and format all swap areas.
stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 07:17 Looking at my partition table, it appears my /boot/efi partition is distinct from my EFI system partition - I suspect this is a result of GRUB. How would this impact this response?
/boot/efi must be an EFI partition. Maybe you have two distinct EFI partitions for Windows and Manjaro ? Pleas show us.

Code: Select all

fdisk -l
lsblk
ls /boot/efi/EFI

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#6 Post by sunrat »

stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 07:17I have a number of configuration files (e.g. Wine data) I'd like to move back to my home folder. Any advice on which ones to move and which ones not to?
I recommend to backup up your whole /home to an external disk and move back any particular ones with special configs one by one. You should back up your whole Windows setup also, just in case something goes wrong.
Looking at my partition table, it appears my /boot/efi partition is distinct from my EFI system partition - I suspect this is a result of GRUB. How would this impact this response?
If you currently have a separate partition for /boot you can delete it. The installer will recreate a /boot/efi/ directory inside the root partition. Here is part of my current setup where it shows the ESP mounted at /boot/efi but there is no separate partition. sda7 is Bullseye root partition. sdb contains 3 partitions where I store all data.:

Code: Select all

lsblk -f
NAME    FSTYPE FSVER LABEL        UUID                                 FSAVAIL FSUSE% MOUNTPOINT
sda                                                                                   
├─sda1  vfat   FAT32 ESP          B6AE-62DC                             482.1M     6% /boot/efi
├─sda2                                                                                
├─sda3  ntfs                      C450FC0F50FC0A46                                    
├─sda4  ext4   1.0   busterroot   0481d84b-99a7-41cc-a16b-2a72147ce01e                
├─sda5  swap   1     swap         e740d3f4-6549-4d6b-ab0f-70fa1a682e22                [SWAP]
├─sda6  ext4   1.0   SB@          3e0b6b4f-dce2-4aa0-bcb7-e2879e446704                
├─sda7  ext4   1.0                28572cca-5452-4e5f-b18d-7e7f88e8f497   12.1G    71% /
sdb                                                                                   
├─sdb1  ext4   1.0   Sessions     819a351c-8d8f-43d7-85cd-f9ec19c97bfc  570.3G    53% /mnt/sessions
├─sdb2  ext4   1.0   Music        5469cf2c-d751-4b9c-8509-a1c62caeafc9  444.7G    66% /mnt/music
└─sdb3  ext4   1.0   Stash        5728ffca-fe17-4b52-ba29-6c2298bd2802  572.1G    20% /mnt/stash
leonavis wrote: 2021-11-28 05:50 2. You should. Is Windows on a seperate SSD? Because otherwise formatting would delete the Windows Boot Loader entry.
Windows is on the same SSD. How would I get around this deletion? How would the relevant properties of my partition table mentioned above come into play here?
This is incorrect. Don't confuse ESP with /boot/efi/. ESP is a partition whereas /boot/efi/ is a directory where the ESP is mounted; /boot can be on a separate partition but it's simpler to have it inside the root partition. As I said /boot/ will be created inside the root partition and a separate partition is not necessary. It may help to show your current layout with lsblk -f
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Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#7 Post by p.H »

sunrat wrote: 2021-11-28 09:18 If you currently have a separate /boot/efi partition you can delete it.
You are unclear. Usually, "separate /something" means that /something is used as a mountpoint for a separate filesystem. When you write "separate EFI partition", do you mean "distinct from Windows' EFI partition" (correct) or "/boot/efi is used as a regular directory, not as a mount point for an EFI partition" (obviously wrong) ?

Edit after you edited you last post : nobody here but you mentioned a separate /boot.

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#8 Post by sunrat »

p.H wrote: 2021-11-28 09:41nobody here but you mentioned a separate /boot.
stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 07:17Looking at my partition table, it appears my /boot/efi partition is distinct from my EFI system partition - I suspect this is a result of GRUB.
I took this to mean OP has a separate partition. I actually installed Manjaro recently and IIRC it didn't create a separate /boot partition by default. Debian also doesn't require a separate /boot partition to mount /boot/efi which I stated above.
Both you and I asked OP to post details of their current partition layout to clear any confusion. Otherwise it's just a minefield of ifs.
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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#9 Post by p.H »

The OP did not mention anything about /boot, only /boot/efi. /boot is not the same as /boot/efi.
You did not clarify what you mean by "separate /boot/efi".

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#10 Post by stuck in this forum »

For disambiguation purposes, here is information on my current partition layout. The listed partitions are on /dev/nvme0n1, my NVME SSD, and are organized by their locations on the disk and viewed in Manjaro:
  • nvme0n1p1 is the EFI system partition,. It has the boot and esp flags and has the SYSTEM label. It uses the FAT32 file system and is unmounted.
  • nvme0n1p2 is the Microsoft reserved partition and has the msftres flag. It is unmounted.
  • nvme0n1p3 is a large NTFS basic data partition, has the msftdata flag, and has the Windows label. It is mounted at /run/media/[username]/Windows and is presumably the analogue to the C drive on Windows. I shrunk this partition to make room for Manjaro.
  • nvme0n1p5 is a FAT32 partition. It has the NO_LABEL label and has the boot and esp flags. It is mounted at /boot/efi.
  • nvme0n1p6 is presumably the Manjaro installation's swap partition. It uses the linux-swap file system, has the swap flag, and is unmounted.
  • nvme0n1p7 is an ext4 partition. It is mounted at root (i.e. /).
  • nvme0n1p8 is an ext4 partition. It is mounted at /home.
  • nvme0n1p4 is an NTFS basic data partition. It has the hidden and diag labels and has the Windows RE tools label.
As can be seen, I have two different partitions (p1 and p5) which can be considered EFI system partitions of some sort. If it's any help, I am dropped into what appears to be a GRUB menu when I boot my PC, allowing me to choose between Manjaro and Windows or access UEFI firmware settings (the latter of which I can already do via holding the Escape key).
p.H wrote: 2021-11-28 09:13 Will you delete Manjaro during the Debian installation, or later when you have everything working in Debian ?
I plan to do the former by overwriting the existing partitions - keeping them in place, but altering the data within them.

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#11 Post by p.H »

Partitions p1 and p5 cannot just "be considered EFI system partitions of some sort", they are EFI system partitions (ESP). So there are two distinct EFI partitions for Windows and Manjaro.

When installing Debian, if you choose manual partitioning, by default both partitions will be marked "use as EFI system partition" and either will actually be used and mounted on /boot/efi. If you want to use one, mark the other "do not use". I recommend to mark p1 "do not use" and mark p5 "use as EFI system partition". You can format p5 if you like. Keep all Windows partitions marked "do not use".

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#12 Post by sunrat »

p.H wrote: 2021-11-28 10:56 The OP did not mention anything about /boot, only /boot/efi. /boot is not the same as /boot/efi.
You did not clarify what you mean by "separate /boot/efi".
I meant separate partition for /boot . Incorrectly copied OP's terminology. Fixed it now. OP said "separate /boot/efi" when he meant separate ESP which is normal.
However with the new info just posted, I see OP has 2 ESP partitions which would seem to me to be incorrect for a single disk, so you can take it from here as you are more expert.
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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#13 Post by p.H »

sunrat wrote: 2021-11-28 21:57 OP has 2 ESP partitions which would seem to me to be incorrect for a single disk
Why ? Do you have any information or arguments against multiple EFI system partitions on a single disk ?

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#14 Post by sunrat »

p.H wrote: 2021-11-28 22:31
sunrat wrote: 2021-11-28 21:57 OP has 2 ESP partitions which would seem to me to be incorrect for a single disk
Why ? Do you have any information or arguments against multiple EFI system partitions on a single disk ?
Let me turn that around and ask in what situation that would be useful. As I said above, you are more expert than I.
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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#15 Post by p.H »

sunrat wrote: 2021-11-28 23:09 Let me turn that around and ask in what situation that would be useful.
When the UEFI firmware is flawed and does not handle EFI boot variables properly, so you can only rely on the "removable media path" of each EFI partition to boot a bootloader.
Or when you want to install several Debian instances with separate GRUBs signed for secure boot, because signed GRUB has the /EFI/debian location hardcoded..

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#16 Post by stuck in this forum »

I believe I understand. For each of my questions, the answer would be:
  • While I can do so, I ought not to so as to avoid trouble with incompatibilities - I should back up my /home folder and restore files as desired post-install.
  • Keep both EFI system partitions. Instruct the installer to use p5 as Debian's EFI system partition and to ignore p1.
  • Instruct the installer to not use and keep the data on the Windows partitions.
One last clarification:
p.H wrote: 2021-11-28 21:52 You can format p5 if you like.
What would the results of formatting or not formatting the partition be?

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Re: Unsure how to handle /home, /boot/efi, and Windows partitions on dual boot

#17 Post by p.H »

stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 23:34 I should back up my /home folder and restore files as desired post-install.
Backing up your data is alsways a sane precaution, but you can also just delete all config files and directories (those starting with a dot) in the user home directory.
stuck in this forum wrote: 2021-11-28 23:34 What would the results of formatting or not formatting the [EFI] partition be?
Formatting will delete Manjaro bootloader's files. Not formatting will keep them. You can also delete them by hand.

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