(SOLVED)I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system

Help with issues regarding installation of Debian
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DougieFresh
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(SOLVED)I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system

#1 Post by DougieFresh »

First I want to say hello to all the forum members as I am new to this forum. Been using Ubuntu for about 5 years now. I like the idea of a 'rolling' release as redoing install /upgrade every 6 months is getting 'old'
My machine is triple boot
Hard drive is 320 GB
Windows 7 - 167 GB
Ubuntu - Maverick - 73 GB
Ubuntu - Natty - testing version - 65 GB

I do not want to screw up my 'grub' as it's been trashed a couple of times recently and had to re-install everything, which went great with install setting up partitions.
I am not sure where 'grub' is installed to. I did install Windows 7 first then let installer split hard drive in half to put Ubuntu on then while installing my second Ubuntu, I let installer split the Ubuntu partition in half, hence the 167 GB Windows and the 2 smaller partitions for Ubuntu.
I was thinking to maybe let Debian install over my Maverick install. Would that work and not mess up my Grub and cause me to not be able to boot and have to fix the drama?
I any more info is needed, I am in my Ubuntu install, please give me commands and I shall post any output requested.
Thanks
Last edited by DougieFresh on 2011-06-24 02:05, edited 1 time in total.

grumpy.biatch
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#2 Post by grumpy.biatch »

You can install debian GrUB to its root during the install. When done boot your buntu and do 'sudo update-grub', it will pick up debain and show it in grub menu during your next boot.

Reinstalling GrUB 2(it is butt ugly) isnt a big deal and I guess that is the best way.

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nadir
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#3 Post by nadir »

Mhh...mhh...mhh.
First of all: re-installing grub is not a big thing.
In case you borked it: a)boot a live-CD, b) go to here:
http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=54590
either run the comands manually or use the short piece of code, once in a chroot do: grub-install /dev/sda (for example sda ! );
exit chroot, reboot and run update-grub.

Second: you will have to choose manual partitioning and point the installer to the partition you wan to replace. No biggie, but be prepared to not be too tired or short on time.
More or less i am sure that you can omit the installation of grub altogether. The installer will complain, you reboot into Ubuntu and run "update-grub" and with a bit of luck it will add Debian to its grub.cfg.

Third: I found a one line-command which spits out some info about grub, but it is not what i was looking for.
If it was me i would boot into Maverick, change any title in /boot/grub/grub.cfg (say add an: Ubuntu-TEST so you can easily see it )and force it to accept the change (in vim : x! )and reboot. If the title has changed that is the grub you got installed. If you replace Maverick you will have to boot into Natty and install grub from there (grub-install /dev/sda, sda is for example).
Else boot into Natty, replace any title in /boot/grub/grub.cfg, force it to accept the changes and reboot...
As you seem to have installed Natty as the last OS that is probably where your grub is installed from.
That method is a dirty workaround, but at least you could be sure.

Anyway, here is the -useless- oneliner:

Code: Select all

sudo fdisk -l 2>/dev/null | egrep "Disk /|/dev/" | sed "s#^/dev/#Part /dev/#" | awk '{print $2}' | sed 's/://' | xargs -n1 -IX sudo sh -c "hexdump -v -s 0x80 -n  2 -e '2/1 \"%x\" \"\\n\"' X | xargs -n1 -IY sh -c \"case  \"Y\" in '48b4') echo X: GRUB 2 v1.96 ;; 'aa75' | '5272') echo X: GRUB Legacy ;; '7c3c') echo X: GRUB 2 v1.97 oder höher ;; *) echo X: Kein GRUB Y ;; esac\""
Imho Debian is not that different from Ubuntu, only better, so you got time:
Consider if doing a dual-boot installation in VirtualBox for training purposes might be a choice.
Install Ubuntu, install Debian via manual partitioning, re-install grub a few times there, just for fun (or: training). Do the whole thing again and you are ready to go for hard-disk.

Good luck, take care, perhaps wait a bit for other/better advice.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

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DougieFresh
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#4 Post by DougieFresh »

Thanks for the replies. Nothing was said about my Win7 install.
So I gather that Debian doesn't play nice with dual/triple/multi boot systems if it's the last to be installed and I am most guaranteed a borked system :shock:
I just don't want to have to re-install Win7. I am gonna get Debian installed one way or another as I would like to have an install where I don't have to redo every 6 months more or less

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bmc5311
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#5 Post by bmc5311 »

DougieFresh wrote:Thanks for the replies. Nothing was said about my Win7 install.
So I gather that Debian doesn't play nice with dual/triple/multi boot systems if it's the last to be installed and I am most guaranteed a borked system :shock:
I just don't want to have to re-install Win7. I am gonna get Debian installed one way or another as I would like to have an install where I don't have to redo every 6 months more or less
debian is fine with a multi-boot system. win7 may have problems if you have more then 4 partitions.
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MeanDean
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#6 Post by MeanDean »

install debian
allow it to install grub
it will detect your other operating systems and add them to the grub boot loader
done

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dotlj
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#7 Post by dotlj »

I agree with MeanDean. This is the simplest and best way to go. You did not mention which version of Debian - stable, testing or unstable? The current stable, Lenny is about to be replaced by testing - Squeeze (which is very stable), so install Squeeze and avoid a big upgrade soon. If you choose Lenny, then you will have a big upgrade and also get grub legacy instead of grub2. IMO Grub2 is much better. Also, choose ext4 fs, as it has many advantages over ext3. I've installed multi boot many times with Squeeze and each time has been flawless with correct detection of other OS.
P.S. Also use manual partition and expert mode for install, that gives you the maximum control. Make sure you know which partitions you will use for what, before you begin.

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nadir
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#8 Post by nadir »

Nothing was said about my Win7 install.
So I gather that Debian doesn't play nice with dual/triple/multi boot systems if it's the last to be installed and I am most guaranteed a borked system
In your first post you said:
I was thinking to maybe let Debian install over my Maverick install. Would that work and not mess up my Grub
So i have thought you would prefer keeping the installed grub and add Debian to that one (for what reason i didn't think about). Probably a misunderstanding.
The other way, let Debian install grub, should work fine. But i can only speak about dual-boot, not triple, when it comes to Windows (XP or 7). I also use one hard-disk, not several ones (with several hard-disks and grub2 i got problems... my fault and not much interest to solve it). Perhaps there are other differences too.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

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DougieFresh
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#9 Post by DougieFresh »

I would like to keep my machine (one hard drive) a multi boot. Keep Win7 and my Natty, replace Maverick with Debian and hopefully all 3 can get along in 'grub' and boot the way they should :D

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MeanDean
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#10 Post by MeanDean »

install debian to the partition that maverick is currently on
allow it to install grub
it will detect your other operating systems and add them to the grub boot loader
done

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MeanDean
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#11 Post by MeanDean »

or if natty (wtf is natty???) is in charge of grub right now...

install debian to the maverick partition
do not install grub at all
boot into natty and run update-grub, it should add debian to the choices at boot time

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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#12 Post by edbarx »

If you let Debian use the MBR for its primary bootloader, the other operating systems should be forced to use their partitions for their primary boot loader. So, the grub menu that appears first should not be allowed lo directly load the kernels and initrd.img of the other operating systems. Instead, I suggest you to force the first bootloader that is called to chainload the other bootloaders from their respective partitions.

Note: I remember when I had to manually edit grub's configuration files to allow the other operating systems to boot after an update of one of the kernels. However, this may have been rectified now.
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MeanDean
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#13 Post by MeanDean »

edbarx wrote: So, the grub menu that appears first should not be allowed lo directly load the kernels and initrd.img of the other operating systems. Instead, I suggest you to force the first bootloader that is called to chainload the other bootloaders from their respective partitions.
why?

milomak
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#14 Post by milomak »

reboot your system. let grub run the defaukt option. there is more than a 90% chance that that is where the MBR grub is installed. Make a note of which Ubuntu it is is.

My guess is that whichever was the last Ubuntu you installed is where it is at (again there is a chance this is wrong)

Assuming indeed Natty is where Grub is; I would install debian on the partition with maverick. when it asks about grub; i would tell it to install the partion (NOT TO THE MBR)

On reboot, boot into Natty. Then run grub-update. If os-prober is installed (which I would asume on Natty it is); it should pick up your debian install.

reboot and you should have debian available in grub now. it should chainload into your debian grub.
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#15 Post by milomak »

if you are going to run multiple distros, it helps to learn what can be shared amongst distros and what can't be. i typically run at least 3 different fistros at a time:

for each distro, the root partition (/) is standalone. I have plenty space available so set these at 15GB
I have a shared /home directory of 10GB. within /home, each distro has its own user directory - eg /home/arch; /home/debian; /home/gentoo
then i have allocated a general linux storage space. mine is formatted as an ext4 partition. so it will likely be a partition /dev/sdyx. so in each distro you mount it to the same mount point and you are away.
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nadir
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#16 Post by nadir »

Why from me too.
What is the point of installing grub to the partition, in case it ain't used at all?
This is a question, not a sarcastic side note.
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#17 Post by edbarx »

MeanDean wrote:
edbarx wrote: So, the grub menu that appears first should not be allowed lo directly load the kernels and initrd.img of the other operating systems. Instead, I suggest you to force the first bootloader that is called to chainload the other bootloaders from their respective partitions.
why?
nadir wrote:Why from me too.
What is the point of installing grub to the partition, in case it ain't used at all?
This is a question, not a sarcastic side note.
So, I will answer.

bootloader 1 (I am assuming it to be part of a Debian installation)
Installed to MBR and called by the BIOS
|
|------>> Let's say it is Ubuntu (bootloader 2 installed to Ubuntu's partition)
|
|------>> Other distro 1 (bootloader 3 installed to partition)

Bootloader 1 only chainloads bootloader 2 and 3. This avoids that updates mess the links in grub.cfg providing links to inexistent kernel versions.

In addition, bootloaders 2 and 3 do not provide links to load anything except their respective distribution's kernels.

I found that this setup avoids that updates to any installation create invalid links to kernels that fail.

My setup is more complicated than this. I have a grub-legacy installation in a 24MB partition that boots from the MBR. All distributions are chainloaded and no installation is allowed to link to other kernels apart from its own.

You may wonder that it is complicated, but what interests me is that it is robust and that all distributions are effectively isolated.
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MeanDean
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#18 Post by MeanDean »

So if you wanted to add the 'quiet' option to the kernel line for all your installs then you would need to edit every one of your menu.lst or grub.cfg files??? Is that right?

Chainloading is what I use to do also but I found it to be aggravating due to the above problem. Plus if you keep the /boot/grub folder on one of your installs then you have to be sure to keep that install.

What I do nowadays...and am very happy with....
I install grub to the mbr
I do not let a distro install grub at all anymore. Not to the partitions or the mbr.
I have /boot/grub folder on sda1 which is where I keep all my stuff. sda1 is used only for data
I have generic entries for all my partitions as well as more specific ones that includes some options I prefer
I also have a entry to boot my usb stick
I also have a entry to start a hard drive install
Nothing changes my menu.lst entries but me. I only need to change one file. That file is on my data partition and is as safe as my data is.
It really is not complex at all once you think about grub being entirely seperate from the operating system. If anything I consider it to be more simple this way.

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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#19 Post by edbarx »

MeanDean wrote:So if you wanted to add the 'quiet' option to the kernel line for all your installs then you would need to edit every one of your menu.lst or grub.cfg files??? Is that right?
Isolation comes at a price and that is one of the cons. However, I am happy with that disadvantage as I do not want any installation messing the files of another.
MeanDean wrote:Chainloading is what I use to do also but I found it to be aggravating due to the above problem. Plus if you keep the /boot/grub folder on one of your installs then you have to be sure to keep that install.
The bootloader that loads from the MBR is independent of all installations. In other words it does not belong to any of them.
MeanDean wrote:What I do nowadays...and am very happy with....
I install grub to the mbr
I do not let a distro install grub at all anymore. Not to the partitions or the mbr.
I have /boot/grub folder on sda1 which is where I keep all my stuff. sda1 is used only for data
I have generic entries for all my partitions as well as more specific ones that includes some options I prefer
I also have a entry to boot my usb stick
I also have a entry to start a hard drive install
Nothing changes my menu.lst entries but me. I only need to change one file. That file is on my data partition and is as safe as my data is.
It really is not complex at all once you think about grub being entirely seperate from the operating system. If anything I consider it to be more simple this way.
I can understand your approach as your aim is to access all installation from one grub.cfg file enabling you to make changes that affect any distro installation on your disks. I chose the opposite because I wanted distributions not to affect each other in any way.
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It is hard to get away from CLI tools.

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MeanDean
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Re: I want to install Squeeze on my triple-boot system with help

#20 Post by MeanDean »

The bootloader that loads from the MBR is independent of all installations. In other words it does not belong to any of them.
Correct. But if someone chainloads other installs AND they have /boot/grub contained in one of the installations....then if they wipe that installation then the grub config files are gone with it...

I can understand your approach as your aim is to access all installation from one grub.cfg file enabling you to make changes that affect any distro installation on your disks. I chose the opposite because I wanted distributions not to affect each other in any way
None of my distributions affect the other. My installs are all isolated the same as yours, yet I only need to edit one file.


...and as a bonus....I do not have the following problem http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php? ... 73&start=0

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