Debian Buster is here

Discussion about development of the Debian OS itself
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dotlj
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#31 Post by dotlj »

I've been looking at Buster and testing over the last year and installed in March on my home desktop. As most of the RC bugs affecting Buster don't affect me, I had no problem testing and enjoy it very much.

The kernel is 4.19 which I have been using in Stretch on another machine from stretch-backports for some time. As Buster will be released with that kernel, once Buster is released, I'll wait for the newer kernels to trickle down from Sid.

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None1975
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#32 Post by None1975 »

Release-critical bugs status on Sat May 18 12:00:00 UTC 2019-only 115. Very good news!
OS: Debian 10.3 Buster / WM: xmonad
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github

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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#33 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

The new base-files package has made it into buster:

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ryzen:~$ cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"
NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="10"
VERSION="10 (buster)"
VERSION_CODENAME=buster
ID=debian
HOME_URL="https://www.debian.org/"
SUPPORT_URL="https://www.debian.org/support"
BUG_REPORT_URL="https://bugs.debian.org/"
ryzen:~$ lsb_release -a
No LSB modules are available.
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:    Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
Release:        10
Codename:       buster
ryzen:~$ cat /etc/debian_version
10.0
ryzen:~$ 
Debian 10 ftw!
Black Lives Matter

Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support

Wheelerof4te
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#34 Post by Wheelerof4te »

Ok, so to sum up this clusterfuck of a thread, only base-files have changed to point only to Debian 10 (Buster).
Debian 10 has not been released just yet, but the change in base-files indicates that it's release is closer than we thought.

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cat /etc/os-release
PRETTY_NAME="Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)"
NAME="Debian GNU/Linux"
VERSION_ID="10"
VERSION="10 (buster)"
VERSION_CODENAME=buster
ID=debian

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beardedragon
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#35 Post by beardedragon »

Buster, it seems, has been out in an rc, [debian-buster-DI-rc1-amd64-DVD-1] since April 12, 2019. I'm wrestling with the sources list that seems to require the install disk ever so often. "Any ideas?" BTW, it only comes with xfce4.12.4.

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bob@Debian:~$ inxi -Fxzc0
System:
  Host: Debian Kernel: 4.19.0-5-amd64 x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 8.3.0 
  Desktop: Xfce 4.12.4 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) 
Machine:
  Type: Desktop System: LENOVO product: 10181 v: Lenovo K450e 
  serial: <filter> 
  Mobo: LENOVO model: N/A v: 31900058 STD serial: <filter> BIOS: LENOVO 
  v: I1KT38AUS date: 06/10/2014 
Battery:
  Device-1: hidpp_battery_0 model: Logitech M570 charge: 85% 
  status: Discharging 
CPU:
  Topology: Quad Core model: Intel Core i5-4460 bits: 64 type: MCP 
  arch: Haswell rev: 3 L2 cache: 6144 KiB 
  flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 25543 
  Speed: 798 MHz min/max: 800/3400 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 798 2: 798 
  3: 798 4: 798 
Graphics:
  Device-1: NVIDIA GK208 [GeForce GT 720] vendor: Micro-Star MSI 
  driver: nvidia v: 418.56 bus ID: 01:00.0 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.3 driver: nvidia 
  unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: GeForce GT 720/PCIe/SSE2 v: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 418.56 
  direct render: Yes 
Audio:
  Device-1: Intel 8 Series/C220 Series High Definition Audio vendor: Lenovo 
  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 
  Device-2: NVIDIA GK208 HDMI/DP Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI 
  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 01:00.1 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k4.19.0-5-amd64 
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet 
  vendor: Lenovo driver: r8169 v: kernel port: d000 bus ID: 03:00.0 
  IF: enp3s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 1.82 TiB used: 70.23 GiB (3.8%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Western Digital model: WD10EZEX-08M2NA0 
  size: 931.51 GiB 
  ID-2: /dev/sdd type: USB vendor: Western Digital model: WD Elements 25A2 
  size: 931.48 GiB 
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 908.08 GiB used: 22.66 GiB (2.5%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1 
  ID-2: swap-1 size: 7.93 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5 
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 43.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nvidia temp: 49 C 
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nvidia fan: 28% 
Info:
  Processes: 179 Uptime: 1h 30m Memory: 7.73 GiB used: 704.0 MiB (8.9%) 
  Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 8.3.0 Shell: bash v: 5.0.3 
  inxi: 3.0.32 
Robert Collard, Madison, WI
Lenovo K450e Kernel: 4.19.0-5 NVIDIA 418.74
Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) XFCE-4.12.4
Rule #1 Back Up
Rule #2 Back Up Your Back Up

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dotlj
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#36 Post by dotlj »

Please have a look at the weekly testing images https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/week ... 64/iso-cd/

For testing and even for stable, I do an initial install using netinst.iso but choose no desktop, only system and ssh, then reboot.
After checking the system I then add the desktop I want, so if you want minimal KDE, choose

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apt install kde-plasma-desktop
Edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change to (you can also add the deb-src if you like them)

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deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free
Backports and security aren't available until it becomes stable, so you can edit but I have then in and have no problems with

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apt update 
apt dist-upgrade

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beardedragon
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#37 Post by beardedragon »

dotlj wrote:Please have a look at the weekly testing images https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/week ... 64/iso-cd/

For testing and even for stable, I do an initial install using netinst.iso but choose no desktop, only system and ssh, then reboot.
After checking the system I then add the desktop I want, so if you want minimal KDE, choose

Code: Select all

apt install kde-plasma-desktop
Edit /etc/apt/sources.list and change to (you can also add the deb-src if you like them)

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deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster main non-free contrib
deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security buster/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-updates main contrib non-free
deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ buster-backports main contrib non-free
Backports and security aren't available until it becomes stable, so you can edit but I have then in and have no problems with

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apt update 
apt dist-upgrade
Thanks the only missing one was buster-backports I did get a warning, I also put a # in front of the one making it look for the DVD all the time.

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The following packages have been kept back:
  libxnvctrl0
Robert Collard, Madison, WI
Lenovo K450e Kernel: 4.19.0-5 NVIDIA 418.74
Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) XFCE-4.12.4
Rule #1 Back Up
Rule #2 Back Up Your Back Up

L_V
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#38 Post by L_V »

beardedragon wrote:Thanks the only missing one was buster-backports I did get a warning,
That's normal because buster-backports does not exist. It's a bit early to expect backports on buster.....

libxnvctrl0 / buster: https://packages.debian.org/buster/libxnvctrl0

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beardedragon
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#39 Post by beardedragon »

L_V wrote:
beardedragon wrote:Thanks the only missing one was buster-backports I did get a warning,
That's normal because buster-backports does not exist. It's a bit early to expect backports on buster.....

libxnvctrl0 / buster: https://packages.debian.org/buster/libxnvctrl0
Thanks for the link, gdebi said it is already installed, I reinstalled it just in case.
Robert Collard, Madison, WI
Lenovo K450e Kernel: 4.19.0-5 NVIDIA 418.74
Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) XFCE-4.12.4
Rule #1 Back Up
Rule #2 Back Up Your Back Up

L_V
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#40 Post by L_V »

Can you show this:

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apt policy libxnvctrl0

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beardedragon
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#41 Post by beardedragon »

L_V wrote:Can you show this:

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apt policy libxnvctrl0

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bob@Debian:~$ sudo apt policy libxnvctrl0
[sudo] password for bob: 
libxnvctrl0:
  Installed: 418.74-1
  Candidate: 418.74-1
  Version table:
 *** 418.74-1 100
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     418.56-1 500
        500 http://deb.debian.org/debian buster/main amd64 Packages
Robert Collard, Madison, WI
Lenovo K450e Kernel: 4.19.0-5 NVIDIA 418.74
Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) XFCE-4.12.4
Rule #1 Back Up
Rule #2 Back Up Your Back Up

L_V
Posts: 1270
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#42 Post by L_V »

Then all is fine !
(you don't need "sudo" for apt policy)

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oswaldkelso
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#43 Post by oswaldkelso »

Today I installed Buster, just for a giggle I chose desktop and got Gnome, shock and you guessed it horror!

First thing I did was add ps_mem to my nice clean system. I thought a before and after check would be smart.

I was a bit worried when I downloaded the iso, but figured if must have like 5 DE's for it to be so large at 3.7GB. I was interested to see if I was missing anything and if so what.

I chose not to add the non-free Wi-Fi driver as I have a cable, but it may have caused it to hang gdm on boot, I switched to another console and ran startx... bingo a desktop eventually :-) Then I realise I'm logged in as root? I thought that wasn't possible?

Anyway I kill the session log out and re-login as user using startx. Fired up Firefox but no connection! weird as network setting said I'm connected. restart Firefox and I'm on line. I add ps_mem. It shows 713MB just for the desktop and without gdm :-) Of course not having started gdm I couldn't log out of it. Just cancel, reboot and shutdown.

I reboot hangs again at starting gnome display manager something called init mac failed while trying to load the non existing firmware blob. I switch to root and run systemctl restart gdm3. It hangs leaving me with no tty access. Hard reboot. Same error. log into tty2 and end up using startx. I start a Firefox and LibreOffice and before you know it I'm using 1.2GB of ram. No wonder it's like wading through treacle. One thing I did discover was this pc is a "shuttle XPC XS36V" and even though it only has an external display the system see's it as a laptop with a built in display. I set it to the larger external display and all is dandy. Not that it helped GDM3.

Ignoring the login issues.

The interface is like a poor mans version of fittstool with skippy-xd (which I have setup but don't use as it's to cumbersome). Essentially if you use a mouse. You get much better application switching with plain old tint2 as the mouse movement is minimal and instant. If your going to just use a keyboard for switching seriously why would you use gnome?

I liked the clock in the middle of the screen after it logged me out! I didn't like how it logged me out without asking but suspect this could be changed.

Launching applications from the all section is criminally slow compared to a decent menu. The type launcher ridiculously slow compared to most type driven launchers like dmenu or runner. The hot spot launcher supersonically slow compared to fittstool on this same machine without gnome. Now if you have gobs of ram maybe you won't notice but what the heck is going on in the background for the same actions to be so much slower. Is there something you can switch off? Composting etc

My I propose a name change from Gnome to Slowme (slow-me frigging down)

Then I though while I'm here I'll try the other Desktops. KDE and XFCE

I ran software updates and cache refresh froze. Nothing xkill didn't fix :-)

apt-get install xfce4 which offered me to switch from gdm3 the lightdm... I did

after a reboot I get lightdm \o/ select xfce and login I turnoff composting and get 405MB from ps_mem... much snappier useable even.

Rather weirdly icewm is seem as a meta package or so it seems adding xscreensaver?

down to 290MB with at least 80MB of cruft. Not quite the 62MB I get on my usual system with my nc10 and icewm but hey better than 1.2GB. Very usable and more importantly for me and my old hardware a quick desktop.

Comparing my usual desktop: with the most used applications.

Base:a wm (usually icewm or openbox), tint2, xdotool, fittstool, rox-filer, spacefm network: seamonkey, weechat, claws-mail, wicd-gtk, gftp graphics:geeqie, gimp, inkscape, blender editors:leafpad, adie, geany, libre-office multimedia:cplay, gogglesmm, mpv, transmission-gtk utils:lilytermm, thunar-bulkrename, arandr

Clearly if I needed a more streamlined desktop I could remove most of those applications and choose much lighter one's. So what the heck is going on with Gnome and what the heck is going on with Buster... I mean it's due to be stable....

I'm seriously not sure if gnome hates me or I hate it.. It's definitely getting better compared to the last time I tried it but just as well neither the two need meet :mrgreen:
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beardedragon
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#44 Post by beardedragon »

oswaldkelso wrote:Today I installed Buster, just for a giggle I chose desktop and got Gnome, shock and you guessed it horror!
I'm seriously not sure if gnome hates me or I hate it.. It's definitely getting better compared to the last time I tried it but just as well neither the two need meet :mrgreen:
Sorry I gutted your long post, Did not need to read it twice. I have not liked gnome or mate for a longtime, but, started out with it. I prefer Xfce. You have a lot of interesting points but there are reasons for your problems. For instance, getting logged out without being told is due to not taking care of your settings when you first started, there are always some settings that have to do with screen time and with a screen saver the problem is two fold. Actually for a starting new RC system it is fast enough. I imagine xfce is faster than gnome though. If you started with only one disk to install with you have a modest amount of software. If you have three or more then I can understand the bulk. Welcome to the world of Buster, it is a different breed of Debian for sure. I had a taste of it from my recent experience in Testing if you read any of the rest of this. Hope you like it though I cannot take credit for any of it. Stick around it should be fun.
Robert Collard, Madison, WI
Lenovo K450e Kernel: 4.19.0-5 NVIDIA 418.74
Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) XFCE-4.12.4
Rule #1 Back Up
Rule #2 Back Up Your Back Up

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None1975
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#45 Post by None1975 »

oswaldkelso wrote:Rather weirdly icewm is seem as a meta package or so it seems adding xscreensaver?
Yes, it is. Just look here and here.
OS: Debian 10.3 Buster / WM: xmonad
Debian Wiki | DontBreakDebian, My config files on github

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oswaldkelso
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#46 Post by oswaldkelso »

The Buster experience continued with other DE's

enlightenment: 300mb after playing with composition got in down to 263mb. Light, lots of bling but as seems usual with enlightenment unstable! Windows froze requiring a log out. That said it performance wise it was fine. 7/10

mate:388mb usable by my granny. Complained about my screen but loaded it anyway. 6/10

lxde:308mb it seemed to load a bit of gnome cruft and would no doubt be much lighter if I removed gnome... may test that. lovely simple DE that anyone could use. 8/10

budgie: 540mb very basic ootb but much more usable speed wise. 6/10

plasma:plasma really struggled to load the monitor. very slow to start like over a minute or two. First time I got a black screem and waited. Eventually an option to select a monitor appeared. I clicked the wrong one and got a perminent black screen. I opened a tty and went in to .local/share/kscreen and deleted the file in there. Rebooted and tried again this time I selected the correct monitor and eventually got a desktop. Very slow to load up but once loaded works not to bad.. ps_mem showing 455mb Goodness knows what a full KDE would be like but no on my pay scale. 7/10

openbox: 270mb wtf is all the cruft being dragged in. Worked fine but felt like Usain Bolt and with a ball and chain 9/10

Gnome lost the ability to start synaptic and gparted but plasma could

Uninstalled reformatted the drive and reinstalled with no desktop

apt installed xorg rox curl firefox tint2 icewm mousepad spacefm and a few bits. Runs fine nice and quick but did need and hour to setup. Not got fittstool built yet as it complains about missing glib2 I suspect I need some dev files that I don't know the name of. I know it builds and works because I built it when I had the full desktop. pebkac :-) Edit. fixed is installed some massive meta file by mistake so I guess it's still a pebkac!

icewm: 105mb! better but no cigar xorg is like 35mb of that as opposed to usually about 10 and xrandr show the infamous "laptop screen" so I suspect it may be an issue no matter what distro. Disabled the "laptop screen" with arandr damn I like that application. 9/10 edit rose to 120mb! wtf

All scoring imho and relate to the tested hardware and used Buster release only bla bla bla

Basically composting by default sucks and the installer should recommend a DE based on your hardware should you choose a desktop install.... anyway it's been an experience I may keep Buster on it to watch, along with exegnu (TDE) which absolutely flies as a full DE. Have fun and enjoy
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sickpig
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#47 Post by sickpig »

what a gem of a post, thanks for the different comparisons. much appreciated. m not sure about openbox memory consumption though, on my vanilla netinstall its under 160mb and thats with a bunch of crap like at-spi-2, gconf, dconf, upowered, cgmanager, gnome-keyring etc
oswaldkelso wrote:Basically composting by default sucks
aye
oswaldkelso wrote:and the installer should recommend a DE based on your hardware should you choose a desktop install
hahaha never gonna happen :lol:

But yes TDE absolutely rocks!!

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fred44nl
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#48 Post by fred44nl »

oswaldkelso wrote:The Buster experience continued with other DE's
interesting, well, for me anyway.
but how do I get icewm to work ??
did install it with apt install icewm
did nano /etc/X11/default-display-manager and changed gdm3 to icewm
did sudo dpkg-reconfigure icewm
did update-alternatives --config x-window-manager and selected icewm
rebooted in between each change, but no dice :)
Debian 10 - Buster on Compulab Fitlet2

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None1975
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#49 Post by None1975 »

fred44nl wrote:rebooted in between each change, but no dice :)
In login screen, you must choose icewm-session to have full experience with icewm.
OS: Debian 10.3 Buster / WM: xmonad
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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Debian Buster is here

#50 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

oswaldkelso wrote:Gnome lost the ability to start synaptic and gparted
Nope: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=699438#p699438

You probably tried the Wayland session, that won't allow synaptic to start because it runs in an insecure manner and the Wayland devs actually give a shit, amazingly.

Gparted works in both the X-based and Wayland GNOME session though, at least on my 10-year-old X201 (which runs GNOME very smoothly btw).
fred44nl wrote:did nano /etc/X11/default-display-manager and changed gdm3 to icewm
Icewm isn't a display manager so you should probably change that back.
fred44nl wrote:did update-alternatives --config x-window-manager and selected icewm
The x-window-manager alternative is only used if you have no x-session-manager alternative installed so that won't really do anything.

Select icewm-session from GDM's login screen by using the little cog-wheel icon just underneath the login box.
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Debian buster-backports ISO image: for new hardware support

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