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Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

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este.el.paz
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Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#1 Post by este.el.paz »

Folks:

Been kicking around in linux for awhile, tried most of the flavors over the years . . . recently I installed a Bullseye XFCE edition in a multi-boot computer, and it is a very nice OS. I have another partition in an SSD that I could use to install something different, I don't really need "stability" because I have OSX for that duty if I need that.

One thing I don't need is where an update/upgrade will reach across partition walls and remove data from my other installs . . . I had that happen last year with a "sid" based OS . . . their forum was very helpful, but that is too "sid-like" for me; if it doesn't "play well with others" it has to go. I don't mind if an OS destroys itself, self-immolation is fine--but not while harming others or the machine . . . or my multi-boot grub list.

I checked my Bullseye sources.list and it seems to show "debian bullseye" . . . I wouldn't mind if I edited that to what "debian testing" to see if that pulls in the "next new thing" . . . . But, my question is on whether there is Debian 12 or 13 live .iso files around to start fresh on the newest, next generation of Debian?? OR, whether the only way to do that is get bullseye RC3 and then change sources.list to "debian unstable"?? Or is it just "unstable" . . . and that will be pulling the 12 or 13 packages???? With emphasis on providing only the most **unstable** packages???

I searched a few links through this forum, but didn't exactly see where the next gen Debian OS could be downloaded for live booting, etc.

e.

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#2 Post by A_T »

you could build your own sid iso with live-build

Code: Select all

sudo apt install live-build
lb config -d sid --debian-installer-gui true --debian-installer live
echo "task-gnome-desktop" >> config/package-lists/my.list.chroot
sudo lb build

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#3 Post by este.el.paz »

A_T wrote: 2021-08-07 18:12 you could build your own sid iso with live-build

Code: Select all

sudo apt install live-build
lb config -d sid --debian-installer-gui true --debian-installer live
echo "task-gnome-desktop" >> config/package-lists/my.list.chroot
sudo lb build
@A_T

OK, sounds like a fun project for a rainy day . . . I have yet to "compile a kernel" which I guess is another one of those DIYer projects that is still waiting to be done in my linux to-do list.

So, in regrads to your suggested commands, I guess if I wanted "mate" or "kde" or would it be "plasma" then I would edit/modify the echo task area??? And then this would build the iso on the user desktop or home folder??

But, still my question remains on the Deb 12 or 13 .iso files??? Are there "cdimage" listings available specifically for them or, essentially they are "pure sid" or "pure testing" . . . items?? Meaning if I changed a bullseye sources.list to "testing" that would be giving me "Debian 12"?? And if I changed it to "unstable" that essentially would be Deb 13 packages????

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#4 Post by craigevil »

Testing right now is Debian 11 Bullseye, it will be the next Stable when it gets released.
Sid is always Sid.
After Bullseye is released Testing goes nuts with new packages, not a fun place to be.

Debian release names:

Code: Select all

debian-distro-info -a
buzz
rex
bo
hamm
slink
potato
woody
sarge
etch
lenny
squeeze
wheezy
jessie
stretch
buster
bullseye
bookworm
trixie
sid
experimental
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB
Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
My Giant Sources.list

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#5 Post by mm3100 »

Names for Debian 12 and 13 have already been released, they usually announce those things before new stable is out. As they need to have codenames for testing and unstable.

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBookworm
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTrixie

Edit: I think I am wrong here, I don't actually know, if they need to have 12 and 13 as codenames, since testing and unstable are codenames them selves. Would like to know as well now.

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#6 Post by este.el.paz »

mm3100 wrote: 2021-08-07 19:52 Names for Debian 12 and 13 have already been released, they usually announce those things before new stable is out. As they need to have codenames for testing and unstable.

https://wiki.debian.org/DebianReleases
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianBookworm
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTrixie

Edit: I think I am wrong here, I don't actually know, if they need to have 12 and 13 as codenames, since testing and unstable are codenames them selves. Would like to know as well now.
@mm3100 && @craigevil

Thanks for the follow-ups . . . possibly mm3100 has touched onto what I'm asking, as indeed, the sources.list could be set eternally to "testing" or "unstable" and whatever "catharsis" is endured via upgrading would be slightly different in intensity. I saw a post here from this sub-forum where someone suggested that "sid was actually more stable than testing" ????. . . possibly as craigevil was mentioning, after a version is released, the new packages might be more highly "unstable" in testing, etc???

But, back to the question, right now my sources.list says something like "debian bullseye" . . . rather than "testing," even though bullseye IS now "testing," but it means that it will continue as "bullseye" for the duration after it is released, and there would be no "cathartic packaging upheaval" that would be happening if I changed my sources.list to . . . "testing," right?

So, if I wanted to get to "trixie" packages, would I install the recent "bullseye RC3" iso, and then edit the sources.list to "debian trixie"??? And that would do a distribution upgrade to "trixie"??? which would be what, "experimental" which is independent of "sid"????

Or, the only way to get "upstream" on the latest packages is going full tilt boogie with "sid" aka changing the sources.list to "debian unstable" . . . and that would be akin to Debian 14???? Next level type of stuff??

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#7 Post by stevepusser »

Rebuilding a Debian kernel with a few changes is not too difficult, once you know where some critical configuration files are in the debian folder (mostly in /config), and sort of understand the Debian packaging procedure. I could walk you through it cargo-cult style, but that's not teaching much.

Steve (cooking a backport of Bullseye's 5.10.46-4 kernel for MX Linux (Buster) right now)

Just saw your last post--always use Sid for the unstable distro. Trixie won't work yet, and I don't know how long it takes for testing to switch over to its new nickname. I'd give it time to settle down first anyway.
MX Linux packager and developer

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#8 Post by este.el.paz »

stevepusser wrote: 2021-08-07 22:08 Rebuilding a Debian kernel with a few changes is not too difficult, once you know where some critical configuration files are in the debian folder (mostly in /config), and sort of understand the Debian packaging procedure. I could walk you through it cargo-cult style, but that's not teaching much.

Steve (cooking a backport of Bullseye's 5.10.46-4 kernel for MX Linux (Buster) right now)

Just saw your last post--always use Sid for the unstable distro. Trixie won't work yet, and I don't know how long it takes for testing to switch over to its new nickname. I'd give it time to settle down first anyway.
@stevepusser

Thanks also to you for your time to post back . . . my thing is that I have a few machines that each are multi-boot, many of them rolling distros, so it's somewhat of a "full-time" gig just keeping them all up to date, and every other week a new kernel is coming out for each of them . . . no point "dwelling" on one of them . . . .

So, I got it on the "trixie ain't happnin' yet," . . . same thing for "bookworm"??? But, I could be just fine to get a Debian Sid edition going, if that would be for the "freshest horsies" coming down the tubes that aren't completely blowing up every time there is a dist-upgrade??? Would that be "debian unstable" or just "unstable" in the sources.list?? And, then, is Sid the closest iteration in Debian that is like a "rolling" distro????

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#9 Post by Hallvor »

Trixie and Bookworm are just names for future releases. When Bullseye is released, Bookworm becomes the new testing, and then later stable. When Bookworm becomes stable, Trixie becomes testing, and later stable, etc.

Debian consists of several branches, from less tested to more tested packages.

Experimental
Unstable/Sid
Testing
Stable

These names are what they say, and every branch is there to support the stable release. If you know how to fix your own problems, Sid will be fine.

If you want a rolling release with few problems, it is in my humble opinion better to use a distro tailored towards that purpose.

https://www.tecmint.com/best-rolling-re ... ributions/
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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#10 Post by pwzhangzz »

Where can I find info re the next iteration of Debian Testing, such as packages, kernel version, etc.? I looked at Debian Unstable, and at the present, the packages are not that different from those of Bullseye.

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#11 Post by 4D696B65 »

pwzhangzz wrote: 2021-08-11 05:36 I looked at Debian Unstable, and at the present, the packages are not that different from those of Bullseye.
That's because we are in a freeze. Bullseye will go stable very shortly and then new packages will flood into sid.

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#12 Post by este.el.paz »

4D696B65 wrote: 2021-08-11 06:21
pwzhangzz wrote: 2021-08-11 05:36 I looked at Debian Unstable, and at the present, the packages are not that different from those of Bullseye.
That's because we are in a freeze. Bullseye will go stable very shortly and then new packages will flood into sid.
@4D696B65

Whenever this sid flooding starts happening, is that when sources.list could be edited to "bookworm" to begin the next phase of testing????

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#13 Post by 4D696B65 »

este.el.paz wrote: 2021-08-11 14:27 @4D696B65

Whenever this sid flooding starts happening, is that when sources.list could be edited to "bookworm" to begin the next phase of testing????
Yes

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#14 Post by este.el.paz »

Folks:

Back in my Bullseye partition this morning, ran apt dist-upgrade and it replies, "0 packages to upgrade, nothing to do."

Does that mean Bullseye has reached its release date for becoming the stable butterfly . . . and now "debian bookworm" would be the edit to make to move on to the new testing system???

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#15 Post by este.el.paz »

Folks:

Jumping back on my own thread here to ask two questions about my fresh install of Debian Bullseye that I then edited sources.list to "unstable" . . . . In reading another thread it looks like any of the "security" lines would be commented out? When I had all of the "bullseye" options just changed over to "unstable" apt update was showing errors for "updates" and "backport" . . . I've now got only one line in the sources.list??? Is that how unstable plays??

Other problem that I again ran into is getting "root" to accept my password . . . there was something in the installer that was asking a question about whether to "allowing user to log in" and I tried to get it to add the user to sudo, which it seems to have done OK, but trying to get "su -" to work is returning "authentication failure" . . . .

I only recently went through this on another machine and I added ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL to /etc/sudoers and that possibly was what worked for "su -"???? to get into root?? Or was that to add myself to just get "sudo" command working?? This is one of those PITA deals where root log in isn't working, but then is needed for certain operations?? How does Debian handle this issue, again?? : - 0


Here's the apt update data now showing no errors, but only using one line:

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian unstable InRelease
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
All packages are up to date.
Cat /etc/apt/sources.list:

Code: Select all

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib

#deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security unstable-security main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security unstable-security main contrib non-free

# bullseye-updates, to get updates before a point release is made;
# see https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_updates_and_backports
#deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-updates main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-updates main contrib non-free

# bullseye-backports, previously on backports.debian.org
#deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-backports main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-backports main contrib non-free
Does that look right? Just one line in the sources.list??

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#16 Post by 4D696B65 »

este.el.paz wrote: 2021-09-20 00:43 . I've now got only one line in the sources.list??? Is that how unstable plays??
Yes
este.el.paz wrote: 2021-09-20 00:43 Other problem that I again ran into is getting "root" to accept my password . . . there was something in the installer that was asking a question about whether to "allowing user to log in" and I tried to get it to add the user to sudo, which it seems to have done OK, but trying to get "su -" to work is returning "authentication failure" . . . .

I only recently went through this on another machine and I added ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL to /etc/sudoers and that possibly was what worked for "su -"???? to get into root?? Or was that to add myself to just get "sudo" command working?? This is one of those PITA deals where root log in isn't working, but then is needed for certain operations?? How does Debian handle this issue, again?? : - 0
I don't use sudo, someone else can help
este.el.paz wrote: 2021-09-20 00:43
Cat /etc/apt/sources.list:

Code: Select all

deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib

#deb http://security.debian.org/debian-security unstable-security main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://security.debian.org/debian-security unstable-security main contrib non-free

# bullseye-updates, to get updates before a point release is made;
# see https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_updates_and_backports
#deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-updates main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-updates main contrib non-free

# bullseye-backports, previously on backports.debian.org
#deb http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-backports main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://deb.debian.org/debian/ unstable-backports main contrib non-free
Does that look right? Just one line in the sources.list??
Yes

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#17 Post by este.el.paz »

4D696B65 wrote: 2021-09-20 01:20
este.el.paz wrote: 2021-09-20 00:43 . I've now got only one line in the sources.list??? Is that how unstable plays??
Yes
este.el.paz wrote: 2021-09-20 00:43 Other problem that I again ran into is getting "root" to accept my password . . . there was something in the installer that was asking a question about whether to "allowing user to log in" and I tried to get it to add the user to sudo, which it seems to have done OK, but trying to get "su -" to work is returning "authentication failure" . . . .

I only recently went through this on another machine and I added ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL to /etc/sudoers and that possibly was what worked for "su -"???? to get into root?? Or was that to add myself to just get "sudo" command working?? This is one of those PITA deals where root log in isn't working, but then is needed for certain operations?? How does Debian handle this issue, again?? : - 0
I don't use sudo, someone else can help


Following up, it's not "sudo" I'm looking for an assist on, it's "su" or "su -" . . . root isn't accepting my password, but sudo is . . .????

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#18 Post by sunrat »

Root needs root password, sudo needs user password. Did you set a root password during install? If you didn't but have sudo working you can set one with

Code: Select all

sudo passwd
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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#19 Post by este.el.paz »

sunrat wrote: 2021-09-20 16:05 Root needs root password, sudo needs user password. Did you set a root password during install? If you didn't but have sudo working you can set one with

Code: Select all

sudo passwd
@sunrat:

Thanks for the reply . . . so those "sudo passwd" options will set "su" root password?? This is a question, where I had just done a new Debian install a couple of weeks back, and the question on the installer is "tricky" and I think I made the "wrong" choice in that machine, leaving me w/o "sudo" . . . .

But, now I don't have "root" in my new "Sid" install . . . although in /etc/sudoers there was a "root' ALL (etc) entry . . . it isn't responding to my password.

I'm away from that machine now so I can't try anything out at the moment; just trying to get some hints on methods to get # function . . . .

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Re: Debian 12 or 13 available, or that is "sid"??

#20 Post by Hallvor »

Code: Select all

$ sudo passwd root
will set a root password...

I don't mean to be rude, but all of your questions could be solved with a very basic web search. It is also faster than asking here.

Please read.. What we expect you have already done: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=47078
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