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Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
- Diesel330
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Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
I saw this question in the Stack Exchange:
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... inux-libre
And they claim there that Debian developing its own kernel. I had the impression that all Linux distributions use kernels developed by the Linux foundation, isn't that true?
https://unix.stackexchange.com/question ... inux-libre
And they claim there that Debian developing its own kernel. I had the impression that all Linux distributions use kernels developed by the Linux foundation, isn't that true?
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
No, they don't.
Yes. That's why they're called "Linux" distributions.
The "Libre" kernel is also developed from the kernel.org source code but that version is deliberately (and pointlessly) crippled so it's users can't make new wifi cards work and their CPUs are all unstable and vulnerable to known exploits. Don't use the "Libre" kernel, it's bad.
deadbang
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
I'm curious if you have a source for that. Or at least, what do you base this on? Can I assume it's similar to e.g. the way GNU Icecat is constantly lagging behind upstream Firefox?
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- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
AFAIUI the Linux-Libre kernel cannot load CPU microcode. Most modern CPUs require the microcode fixes because they're crap.
EDIT: and I describe the de-blobbing as "pointless" because any hardware that doesn't load non-free firmware from the operating system has it implanted at the factory instead (look up Stuxnet). This is even true for CoreBoot systems. The battle is lost.
EDIT: and I describe the de-blobbing as "pointless" because any hardware that doesn't load non-free firmware from the operating system has it implanted at the factory instead (look up Stuxnet). This is even true for CoreBoot systems. The battle is lost.
Last edited by Head_on_a_Stick on 2022-06-12 10:01, edited 1 time in total.
deadbang
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Thanks.
The microcode thing does make sense. I haven't considered this.
Thus libre kernels maybe only for stuff that's already librebooted or similar.
The microcode thing does make sense. I haven't considered this.
Thus libre kernels maybe only for stuff that's already librebooted or similar.
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
To be fair, stuxnet targeted the firmware on siemens PLCs, which is a rather different kettle of fish to your otherwise FOSS PC loading blobs for a bargain-basement wireless chip. The "firmware" on a PLC is effectively a proprietary real-time OS, and usually runs on proprietary silicon as well.
The windows (and wetware) vulerabilities it leveraged to get a connection to said PLC in the first place are rather more mundane, and as is distressingly common in industrial automation, once you're on such a network it's pretty much game-over.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Yes but the firmware controllers on hard drives are certainly capable of hosting malware: https://www.kaspersky.co.uk/blog/equati ... ware/6886/
And the new super-fast memory chips also use embedded firmware in their controllers: https://www.devever.net/~hl/omi
And the new super-fast memory chips also use embedded firmware in their controllers: https://www.devever.net/~hl/omi
deadbang
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Do we get hard disk firmware updates on Linux?
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
I have flashed HDD and SSD firmware before, but it's certainly not something that gets loaded by the OS on a regular basis... And IME booting DOS (or properly, a manufacturers DOS based boot disk) is the only way to do it.
Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. Four times is Official GNOME Policy.
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
deadbang
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Thanks. I'll check if this is viable for my devices. I know that Thinkpads and similar business devices usually have fwupd support, but not sure about my Asus laptop.
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
The answer can be YES, because Debian is patching the upstream kernel code -> here You have a "list" of changes:Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/li ... hes/bugfix
However, the answer could be also NO: those patches are *usually* bugfixes and security updates which are back-ported from latest upstream kernels.
So, while Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution, there can be differences in the kernel code.
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- Diesel330
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Nice to hear that Debian community also take care the kernel or peer review it, good to knowLE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: ↑2022-06-13 20:30The answer can be YES, because Debian is patching the upstream kernel code -> here You have a "list" of changes:Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/li ... hes/bugfix
However, the answer could be also NO: those patches are *usually* bugfixes and security updates which are back-ported from latest upstream kernels.
So, while Debian is a GNU/Linux distribution, there can be differences in the kernel code.
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Some statistics (FACTS) comparing the Debian Stable kernel source VS Linus' Github Linux kernel source clone
72931
76913
36405
Jun 16 09:26
Code: Select all
find src-linux-kernel-debian/linux-5.10.106/ -type f | wc -l #Debian 11.3 (stable/bullseye)
Code: Select all
find src-linux-kernel-linus/linux/ -type f | wc -l
Code: Select all
diff --recursive --report-identical-files src-linux-kernel-linus/linux/ src-linux-kernel-debian/linux-5.10.106/ | egrep 'are identical$' | wc -l
Code: Select all
ls -l src-linux-kernel-linus/ | tail -1 | awk '{print $6, $7, $8}'
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
While the difference in number of "identical" files looks impressive, this does not show the real picture - simply because it counts all the files with different content (with the resolution of a single byte), but such files usually contain the same source code - the differences are mostly in comments and newlines.
Of course, it can be counted as a "different version" of the kernel - but I have a mixed feelings about this.
Anyway, no matter of how the differences are measured, Debian is an unique OS - the Universal OS
Regards.
Of course, it can be counted as a "different version" of the kernel - but I have a mixed feelings about this.
Anyway, no matter of how the differences are measured, Debian is an unique OS - the Universal OS
Regards.
Bill Gates: "(...) In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system."
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
I am using trisquel gnu Linux libre and it's not bad it's just as fast as regular gnu Linux based on Ubuntu though eh I'm more on Debian. But it's supposed to be entire freedom as in everything is auditable in the os, pure freedom which I took to being more secure than blobs. In terms of device support it sucks but I got it working, I am paranoid that all firmware that is obscured is badHead_on_a_Stick wrote: ↑2022-06-12 09:54No, they don't.
Yes. That's why they're called "Linux" distributions.
The "Libre" kernel is also developed from the kernel.org source code but that version is deliberately (and pointlessly) crippled so it's users can't make new wifi cards work and their CPUs are all unstable and vulnerable to known exploits. Don't use the "Libre" kernel, it's bad.
- Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Has Debian its own version of Linux Kernel?
Well yes but the CPU microcode is needed for Spectre & Meltdown mitigation, amongst other things.
You might want to check /sys/devices/system/cpu/vulnerabilities/ to see if your box is wide open in that (limited) respect at least.
Intel Haswell processors are fundamentally unstable without the µcode fixes.
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