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Is it just me...

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n_hologram
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Re: Is it just me...

#21 Post by n_hologram »

GarryRicketson wrote:...with the increasing number of windows users, now becoming Debian users...
Devil's advocate stance, but what data are you basing this on? I ask because every time I've tried to get someone using any variant of Linux, they always find some reason to regress to Windows. It's weird to me.

It isn't necessarily a "bad" thing, as it does keep the Linuxsphere from becoming even more saturated. But, this is just my experience.
bester69 wrote:There is nothing to install in linux, from time to time i go to google searching for something fresh to install in linux, but, there is nothing
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eor2004
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Re: Is it just me...

#22 Post by eor2004 »

sunrat wrote: If you mean Debian, I think Buster is a solid release and I've seen a few people say it's really good. For me as a KDE user, Buster with Plasma 5.14 is definitely the best ever because Plasma 5.14 is the best KDE ever. I've only dabbled with it so far but had no issues and it functions very smoothly.
Don't know why, but unlike your experience, KDE5 (Plasma5) is the only one Debian DE that don't want to play nice on my system, all the other DE or Window Managers works very fine, even Gnome Shell the one I'm using right now works way better than Plasma 5 on my PC. :?
Debian 12 Gnome on a MSI H61M-P25 (B3) PC & on a Dell Latitude E6410 & HP EliteBook 8540p Laptops.
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Re: Is it just me...

#23 Post by theblueplll »

eor2004 wrote:
sunrat wrote: If you mean Debian, I think Buster is a solid release and I've seen a few people say it's really good. For me as a KDE user, Buster with Plasma 5.14 is definitely the best ever because Plasma 5.14 is the best KDE ever. I've only dabbled with it so far but had no issues and it functions very smoothly.
Don't know why, but unlike your experience, KDE5 (Plasma5) is the only one Debian DE that don't want to play nice on my system, all the other DE or Window Managers works very fine, even Gnome Shell the one I'm using right now works way better than Plasma 5 on my PC. :?
You are not alone.

My main machine doesn't like Gnome(which I happen to love) or KDE.

MATE seems to work the best for me on it.

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Re: Is it just me...

#24 Post by stevepusser »

I have to agree with many of your points.

Especially when those damn newbies won't get off my lawn!!!! Hey, I just reseeded it!

The median age of the MX Linux devs is actually pretty high--maybe we should call it MX Lawnux.
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Re: Is it just me...

#25 Post by sunrat »

Back on MX Lawnux :mrgreen:

I just read a thread there where OP didn't provide hardware info for non-working wifi until the third page, instead posting irrelevant neofetch pastes from another distro. The water was muddied somewhat by "helpers" posting irrelevant advice.
I don't like to discourage people from helping, we've all been at the start of the learning curve at some time, but fairly regularly I see "helping" do exactly the opposite.

While I admire MX a lot and use it as a fallback distro, its forum is becoming a victim of it's own popularity. I still post on topics I may know something about but often it's hard to work out what the problem is through newbies' failure to clearly explain, and the low signal-to-noise ratio from well-intentioned but misguided helpers.
That said, some of the more expert regulars and devs there must have the patience of a saint!
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GarryRicketson
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Re: Is it just me...

#26 Post by GarryRicketson »

Was that thread here , or at MX ? Just wondering, ...Some people, to many as far as that goes, prefer having their hand held, and begging for handouts instead of doing anything for their selves, it is sad really.

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Re: Is it just me...

#27 Post by sunrat »

GarryRicketson wrote:Was that thread here , or at MX ?
Back on MX Lawnux :mrgreen:

I just read a thread there...
I try to prioritise the "teach a person to fish" approach rather than "give the person a fish" but it sometimes ends up somewhere in between. If I do a web search to find an answer, I will include how I did the web search and how I found the pertinent info from which I based the web search such as finding the device ID with lsusb/lspci. Spoon feeding is a poor approach to giving help and encourages help vampires.
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GarryRicketson
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Re: Is it just me...

#28 Post by GarryRicketson »

I never even noticed :"I just read a thread there...", guess I need to read more carefully :oops:

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sickpig
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Re: Is it just me...

#29 Post by sickpig »

GarryRicketson wrote:Was that thread here , or at MX ? Just wondering, ...Some people, to many as far as that goes, prefer having their hand held, and begging for handouts instead of doing anything for their selves, it is sad really.
dont do it then.
as it is ur answers are waste. has the op searched or has the op done this. and then the inevitable list of man page references.
y bother answering if u cant offer a solution?

forum would be a better place without bird poop.

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Re: Is it just me...

#30 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

sickpig wrote:as it is ur answers are waste. has the op searched or has the op done this. and then the inevitable list of man page references.
y bother answering if u cant offer a solution?
But what if the solution is readily available in the man pages or a simple interweb search? Are we supposed to retype that crap out for the lazy bastard OP?
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sickpig
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Re: Is it just me...

#31 Post by sickpig »

no of course not.
internet results to solutions r useless most of the times. I have almost always been provided with the right answers here in this forum as compared to getting them from random internet (interweb) searches.
and hey, man pages without examples r the most cryptic form of instructions i have ever come across.
dont answer if the solution is readily available. or if the OP hasn't provided sufficient evidence of their efforts in finding the correct solution.
whats d point in undermining the OP by belittling them for lack of their knowledge?

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Re: Is it just me...

#32 Post by stevepusser »

That beginner on the MX forums never would give us the result of "lspci -k" so we could try and see which Intel wi-fi they had, or even one of the many other ways I suggested could give us the chipset, but it must have been one of the new ninth-generation ones that are only supported in the 5.1 and 5.2 kernel.

Since it didn't work out of the box with our 4.19 backported Buster kernel, and they never did provide information so we could check with modinfo to see if its PCI was supported on a 5.1 kernel after being asked several times, we didn't even get the chance to tell them how to install and use a 5.1 kernel on MX with a couple mouse clicks. :(

Since MX didn't support their spanking new bleeding-edge hardware out of the box, and an Arch-based distro with the 5.2 kernel did, they said they were going to go write a scathing review of MX at Distrowatch... :lol: The thread was locked before I could offer triple their money back.
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Head_on_a_Stick
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Re: Is it just me...

#33 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

stevepusser wrote:That beginner on the MX forums
Yeah, I saw that thread. In the UK we would call such a person a "bellend" :mrgreen:
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NFT5
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Re: Is it just me...

#34 Post by NFT5 »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote: In the UK we would call such a person a "bellend" :mrgreen:
A lot of words must have fallen overboard on the journey from England to Australia. We'd just call such a person a dickhead.
sickpig wrote:internet results to solutions r useless most of the times. I have almost always been provided with the right answers here in this forum as compared to getting them from random internet (interweb) searches.
This really goes to the point made in another thread just today that these forums should not be used as a personal help desk. No doubt you have been given the right answers but did you need to ask the question in the first place? I've had many questions in my Linux journey but probably 98% of those have been able to be answered with a Google search and then making some sort of evaluation as to whether the suggested course of action is a) the correct one or b) not. Sometimes I've called the answer to that question wrong but even I am smart enough to have backups if if fails miserably and, if not, then I've had to reinstall and start again. My call in either case but it's part of the learning experience and the few questions that I have asked here have, by and large, been ones that have had no answer or a solution has had to be developed by people like stevepusser. But we can't rely on people as generous as he is because sooner or later he'll get sick of helping those who won't help themselves and that will hurt not just the forum but those members who have genuine problems as well.

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Re: Is it just me...

#35 Post by sickpig »

@NFT5 couldn't agree more that before posting a basic search has to be done and made clear in your post that you have searched.

I meant that the quality of answers posted here by most of the veterans barring a few, is way too high as compared to random internet results. And definitely more reliable.

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Re: Is it just me...

#36 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

NFT5 wrote:A lot of words must have fallen overboard on the journey from England to Australia.
I think it's a recent addition, we Brits are pretty inventive when it comes to insults. Smeghead would also apply, the pronunciation is very specific though: https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=T-reEOxzJCE
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Re: Is it just me...

#37 Post by sunrat »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
NFT5 wrote:A lot of words must have fallen overboard on the journey from England to Australia.
I think it's a recent addition, we Brits are pretty inventive when it comes to insults. Smeghead would also apply, the pronunciation is very specific though: https://www.hooktube.com/watch?v=T-reEOxzJCE
Indeed Red Dwarf is at the pinnacle of British culture (sharing a spot with The IT Crowd) but the term "smeghead" hasn't transitioned into general usage in Australia. Unfortunately.

Back on the subject of clueless new users, there has also been a marked increase of newer members giving really bad, irrelevant, or useless advice.
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Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
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Re: Is it just me...

#38 Post by Bulkley »

Is it just me...
No, it's not just you. I feel it too but I'm not sure what it is. We seem to be attracting a lot of new posters who have rather strange expectations, who get hostile when we don't meet those expectations. I'm becoming a lurker rather than a participant.

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Re: Is it just me...

#39 Post by sunrat »

It's still an undeniable fact that Debian is harder for beginners than some other distros. I used Mandrake, Suse, PCLos for 5 years before attempting to use Debian mainly because of its reputation for being more difficult. Ubuntu didn't exist then, I tried it when it appeared and was never a fan. It was Kanotix that finally brought me screaming to the Debian world and I have stayed, currently using siduction as main distro, AVLinux for audio production, and Debian Buster and MX just to keep up with other developments.
Maybe we should get back to the days of recommending other distros for beginners such as Mint and MX. I tend to feel sorry for the MX devs though as I follow their forums and they have the same clueless newbies and help vampires there even though MX mainly works OOTB.
“ computer users can be divided into 2 categories:
Those who have lost data
...and those who have not lost data YET ”
Remember to BACKUP!

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Re: Is it just me...

#40 Post by Bulkley »

sunrat wrote:Maybe we should get back to the days of recommending other distros for beginners such as Mint and MX. I tend to feel sorry for the MX devs though as I follow their forums and they have the same clueless newbies and help vampires there even though MX mainly works OOTB.
While derivative OS forums will get some "clueless newbies and help vampires" they probably don't get users wanting help on other platforms. The MX forum won't get many users wanting help with Kali or *buntu. I have no guilt about suggesting that newbies spend some time on an easier OS.

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