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Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-02 11:31
by MicroScreen
sgosnell wrote:USB was released in 1996. Almost every computer built in the past 20 years has USB.
"Almost" is an extremely relative term because, as already mentioned, there is still a lot of old hardware that simply doesn't have this interface for different reasons! So what's so difficult to understand about that?

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-02 11:43
by MicroScreen
p.H wrote:I vaguely remember reading something about old BIOS considering a USB flash drive as floppy disk instead of a hard disk and expecting a specific format.
That's right, these devices had a USB 1.1 interface, which wasn't able to boot any medium without a BIOS update, that was often only available later.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-02 12:23
by RU55EL
sgosnell wrote:USB was released in 1996. Almost every computer built in the past 20 years has USB.
I have a few computers that don't have USB, they were put together from old spare parts that I had laying around. I'm not sure how old the parts are, but Debian runs well enough on the hardware to use. How many computers in third world counties are build by major manufacturers and how many are pieced together from old parts?

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-02 16:10
by sgosnell
Well, one has to use what is available, of course. But technology keeps advancing, and that cannot be stopped. The rest of the world will not continue to use obsolete media or hardware just to cater to the small percentage of people who only have decades-old equipment. 5.25" floppies are no longer available, and software keeps growing in size. I don't see that changing soon. If your machine will only boot from a CD drive, you're going to be left with few options. Regrettably, that's the reality. Ancient hardware generally requires equally ancient software. Early Debian versions are still available for download. But going forward, newer versions won't fit on a CD, just as no modern OS will fit on a single floppy drive, nor a 10MB hard drive. It's not ideal, but it's reality.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-02 18:40
by golinux
sgosnell wrote:Well, one has to use what is available, of course. But technology keeps advancing, and that cannot be stopped. The rest of the world will not continue to use obsolete media or hardware just to cater to the small percentage of people who only have decades-old equipment. 5.25" floppies are no longer available, and software keeps growing in size. I don't see that changing soon. If your machine will only boot from a CD drive, you're going to be left with few options. Regrettably, that's the reality. Ancient hardware generally requires equally ancient software. Early Debian versions are still available for download. But going forward, newer versions won't fit on a CD, just as no modern OS will fit on a single floppy drive, nor a 10MB hard drive. It's not ideal, but it's reality.
That is the view of privilege that ignores the question of "reality for whom"? Technology will continue to advance and further exacerbate the divide as capital flows upward and leaves more and more humans barely able to feed themselves. Maybe I am misreading you position but I find it to be in denial of the reality of millions on this planet. "Let then eat cake" seems to be your answer.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-03 01:30
by sgosnell
It's not my preference, it's just the way it is. I don't know of anything I can do about it. Software, like gas, expands to fill its container. The genie cannot be put back into the bottle. No modern OS going forward is going to fit on a CD, that's a fact and it won't change. To use a CD to boot, one must use older software. If I knew how to change that I would, but I cannot.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-03 20:13
by p.H
sgosnell wrote: No modern OS going forward is going to fit on a CD
does not imply that
sgosnell wrote: To use a CD to boot, one must use older software
You can still boot an current Debian installer with the netinst CD image.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-04 15:19
by arzgi
p.H wrote: You can still boot an current Debian installer with the netinst CD image.
Yep, I can confirm that, upgraded to Buster from net install CD.

I think all my computers now would support usb-boot, but it is just a convention to me to write to optical disk what it includes.

Many times I have lost or mixed usb sticks :mrgreen:

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-04 17:55
by sgosnell
Yes, the netinstall image is less than half a gigabyte. But it requires an internet connection to do the installation. Without an internet connection it's useless. I was under the impression that we were discussing OS images that can make a standalone installation.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-04 17:57
by sgosnell
Yes, the netinstall image is less than half a gigabyte. But it requires an internet connection to do the installation. Without an internet connection it's useless. I was under the impression that we were discussing OS images that can make a standalone installation.

Re: Stop making XFCE single CD images

Posted: 2021-01-04 18:22
by Head_on_a_Stick
The "extended" version of the Alpine Linux ISO image contains a full system and it weighs in at 501MiB. The CD image for the amd64 version of OpenBSD contains all of the sets (including X) and is 511MiB.

The 9front ISO is 238MiB but that's gzipped, it unpacks to a mahoosive 523MiB. It is also a full system.