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Bulkley
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Back to Buster

#1 Post by Bulkley »

Yesterday I upgraded to Bullseye. The upgrade went well and easy. Then I noticed that Day Planner had been removed. Every version upgrade leaves things behind. I use some independent programs such as Day Planner, Radiotray and Obconf. These get left behind because Debian decides that they haven't kept up. Yes, there are other programs that take over the chores but it is Debian leaving them behind not the other way around.

Day Planner does what it is supposed to do; why should someone adapt it. It's rather critical for me. Does Debian have a backward compatibility feature? Is there a sandbox where I can run out-dated programs without hassle? I have tried rebuilding old programs but all I accomplish is making messes.

Before doing the upgrade I cloned my system. I'm now back with Buster and I'll stay here until I find better solutions.

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#2 Post by arzgi »

Also keepnote was removed, or replaced by cherrytree.

Luckily enough, cherfytree was able to import keepnote files.

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#3 Post by craigevil »

Day Planner has a version for Debian 11.
https://github.com/downloads/zerodogg/d ... -1_all.deb

Radiotray hasn't been updated in ages. or you could try Shortwave: https://gitlab.gnome.org/World/Shortwave
Obconf was orphaned because it is dead upstream.

You can download and install all three from their webpage.

Packages get dropped for many reasons, the most common are 1) no maintainer, 2) dead upstream.

Keepnote was last updated in 2012. http://keepnote.org/

Yes I understand losing apps that you use daily sucks, there are most likely apps that are similar.
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#4 Post by arzgi »

craigevil wrote:
Keepnote was last updated in 2012. http://keepnote.org/

Yes I understand losing apps that you use daily sucks, there are most likely apps that are similar.
Yes, noticed the same when investigating.

The same has occurred many times, confusion here was for example when mysql was replaces by mariadb.

You told the most common reasons. So it goes.

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#5 Post by Victor Brand »

BTW obconf is present in Debian Bullseye, I use it.
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=obconf

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#6 Post by Bulkley »

craigevil wrote: 2021-09-10 16:58 Day Planner has a version for Debian 11.
https://github.com/downloads/zerodogg/d ... -1_all.deb
That's the version I've been using for a long time. It needs libgtk2-perl (IIRC) which is not in Bullseye. All of my missing favorites are minimalist and they all need one or two files that Debian is dropping. They do their stuff without much glitz.

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#7 Post by Bulkley »

Victor Brand wrote: 2021-09-10 17:34 BTW obconf is present in Debian Bullseye, I use it.
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=obconf
Yes, it must have been added recently. I wonder why it was dropped from my upgrade.

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#8 Post by Victor Brand »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-09-10 17:42 Yes, it must have been added recently. I wonder why it was dropped from my upgrade.
Perhaps this is because of the transition from python2 to python3 in Openbox packages (but I'm not sure enough it is true for all openbox-related packages though; it seems Openbox still relies on python2-xdg in Debian, but I might be wrong; I've installed both python3 and python2 packages for xdg support just for the case).

All and all, gtk2 is passing away, and so is python2. Thus programs which are based on these frameworks become outdated and are dropped from the distros unless somebody rewrites them against modern frameworks.

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#9 Post by Bulkley »

Victor Brand wrote: 2021-09-10 17:53 All and all, gtk2 is passing away, and so is python2. Thus programs which are based on these frameworks become outdated and are dropped from the distros unless somebody rewrites them against modern frameworks.
I've tried to update old packages. I always end up in some sort of dependency hell and lots of error messages. I've never been successful. I have wondered if there are tools that automate the task but I've never found one. Documentation ranges from bad to worse. The end result is a great respect for those who can do the work.

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Re: Back to Buster

#10 Post by Victor Brand »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-09-10 20:19 I've tried to update old packages. I always end up in some sort of dependency hell and lots of error messages. I've never been successful.
I'm not surprised here. A while ago I've tried to compile some outdated packages too. This failed because of the absence of the necessary libraries... The problem with old software lies not in itself, but in obsolete libraries it depends on. If you wanna compile those small programs, you also need to compile large libraries which are not maintained anymore... And then - whoops! - the libraries depend on an outdated version of, say, libc, which is not backwards compatible with modern libc versions, and that's it...

But the good thing is, this is free software. This means, you always have choice. For almost every piece of software, there is an alternative.

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#11 Post by Bulkley »

Victor Brand wrote: 2021-09-10 21:00
I'm not surprised here. A while ago I've tried to compile some outdated packages too. This failed because of the absence of the necessary libraries... The problem with old software lies not in itself, but in obsolete libraries it depends on. If you wanna compile those small programs, you also need to compile large libraries which are not maintained anymore... And then - whoops! - the libraries depend on an outdated version of, say, libc, which is not backwards compatible with modern libc versions, and that's it...

But the good thing is, this is free software. This means, you always have choice. For almost every piece of software, there is an alternative.
[/quote]

:) Understood.

There are always alternatives; the difficulty is finding suitable replacements.

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#12 Post by bester69 »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-09-10 20:19
Victor Brand wrote: 2021-09-10 17:53 All and all, gtk2 is passing away, and so is python2. Thus programs which are based on these frameworks become outdated and are dropped from the distros unless somebody rewrites them against modern frameworks.
I've tried to update old packages. I always end up in some sort of dependency hell and lots of error messages. I've never been successful. I have wondered if there are tools that automate the task but I've never found one. Documentation ranges from bad to worse. The end result is a great respect for those who can do the work.
This should be able to be done by snaps or flatpaks, but seem they are not designed to use backsoftware..

I would like to be able to keep using kodi 17 in BullsEye.. but i cant... I tried recursives downgrades by flatpak commits in kodi's branch.. but I only was able to reach kodi 18.1.. there should be able to install older apps by using snaps/flatpaks :x .. with snaps I alway keep the application file.snap just in case cos in most branches they dissapear for ever with time
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#13 Post by pcalvert »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-09-10 16:35 Does Debian have a backward compatibility feature? Is there a sandbox where I can run out-dated programs without hassle? I have tried rebuilding old programs but all I accomplish is making messes.
This is an imperfect solution, but I believe that it can accomplish what you are seeking:
https://firejail.wordpress.com/document ... ge/#chroot

He shows the steps for setting up Sid in order to use newer software versions, but there shouldn't be any reason you couldn't use it to install an older version of Debian in order to run older software.

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#14 Post by bester69 »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-09-10 17:39
craigevil wrote: 2021-09-10 16:58 Day Planner has a version for Debian 11.
https://github.com/downloads/zerodogg/d ... -1_all.deb
That's the version I've been using for a long time. It needs libgtk2-perl (IIRC) which is not in Bullseye. All of my missing favorites are minimalist and they all need one or two files that Debian is dropping. They do their stuff without much glitz.
Sometimes, when are few dependencies and not daemos or stuff like that you can get all needed libraries packages and extract them to same folder and use LD_LIBRARY_PATH to run application with no issues.

You also could use debootstrap... Ive just tested stretch debootstrap in bullseye and installed dayplanner0.11 and seems to work well.:

You do following steps.:

sudo debootstrap --variant=minbase stretch media/stretch/ http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian

mount /dev /dev/pts /proc /sys >> media/strech
cp /etc/hosts /media/strech/etc/
sudo chroot media/strech
apt install locales ; dpkg-reconfigure locales
apt install sudo ; add your user to sudoers
adduser yoursuer ; su youruser
sudo dpkg -i dayplanner_0.11-1_all.deb ; sudo apt install -f
dayplanner

THIS IS VERY QUICK TO DO (just 15 minits)

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#15 Post by Bulkley »

pcalvert, bester69, thanks for your suggestions. I'll look into them.

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#16 Post by bester69 »

Osmo seems could be a good available alternative to dayplanner
Osmo is a handy personal organizer, which includes calendar, tasks manager, address book and notes modules. It was designed to be a small, easy to use and good looking PIM tool to help to manage personal information.
In its current state the organizer is quite convenient to use - for example, the user can perform nearly all operations using the keyboard. Also, a lot of parameters are configurable to meet the user's preferences.
On the technical side, Osmo is GTK+ based tool which uses a plain XML database to store all personal data.
https://clayo.org/osmo/

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