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What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
Some users "upgrade" their stable system to testing or sid either to get newer software missing from stable, like for example, virtualbox or to get more recent version. So I thought it would be interesting to post this question, specially with regard to their possible backporting to stable. Thanks in advance for any replies.
DebianStable
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$ vrms
No non-free or contrib packages installed on debian! rms would be proud.
- NFT5
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Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
Whenever I see a question like this, or, indeed, nearly all the topics in this forum about running testing or sid, the first thing that comes to my mind is 'what features do they actually need that are in the development streams?'
I can understand needing a later kernel ( backported 5.10 in Buster to solve some annoying hardware issues) and I've been using Virtualbox direct from Oracle since they introduced USB3 support that wasn't available in the Debian stable repos. That I continue to do this is more habit and the result of the ongoing argument between Debian and Oracle, given that there are alternatives, but it works for me and I'm not introducing potentially troublesome sources that could bork my system.
I've been down the "sns" syndrome path and found that, for most software, particularly GUI, the differences are minimal and, in a disappointing number of cases, the 'improvements' were actually retrogrades or removal of features that I liked/used. So, I'd qualify kedaha's question to add "and why".
In the past I've been more likely to take packages from a prior version of Debian, especially where I'd been using those and they'd been dropped for one reason or another. Examples include gksu and pinta which I took from Stretch in Buster.
So,Virtualbox would be one, provided that I could be confident that Debian and Oracle could sort their differences and I wouldn't be left without a program that I use daily. Others, that I use regularly and run as flatpaks are balenaEtcher and FreeFileSync (not in Sid AFAIK).
I can understand needing a later kernel ( backported 5.10 in Buster to solve some annoying hardware issues) and I've been using Virtualbox direct from Oracle since they introduced USB3 support that wasn't available in the Debian stable repos. That I continue to do this is more habit and the result of the ongoing argument between Debian and Oracle, given that there are alternatives, but it works for me and I'm not introducing potentially troublesome sources that could bork my system.
I've been down the "sns" syndrome path and found that, for most software, particularly GUI, the differences are minimal and, in a disappointing number of cases, the 'improvements' were actually retrogrades or removal of features that I liked/used. So, I'd qualify kedaha's question to add "and why".
In the past I've been more likely to take packages from a prior version of Debian, especially where I'd been using those and they'd been dropped for one reason or another. Examples include gksu and pinta which I took from Stretch in Buster.
So,Virtualbox would be one, provided that I could be confident that Debian and Oracle could sort their differences and I wouldn't be left without a program that I use daily. Others, that I use regularly and run as flatpaks are balenaEtcher and FreeFileSync (not in Sid AFAIK).
Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
Thanks for your reply.
I found that not a few users missed software available from releases older than Buster in my topic back in August of 2019. It's a pretty safe guess there are things folks will miss after upgrading to current stable too.
I've never used flatpaks but was interested to see that BalenaEtcher is there.
So far the only thing I've backported from testing to stable is postfixadmin and from sid, nomacs, after reading this topic.
There seems to be quite a demand for virtualbox, notably from recent forum members. I suppose the method given in the wiki for Bullseye would be preferable for most users to "upgrading" the entire system to testing or sid but, speaking for myself, I'm more than happy with QEMU.
I found that not a few users missed software available from releases older than Buster in my topic back in August of 2019. It's a pretty safe guess there are things folks will miss after upgrading to current stable too.
I've never used flatpaks but was interested to see that BalenaEtcher is there.
So far the only thing I've backported from testing to stable is postfixadmin and from sid, nomacs, after reading this topic.
There seems to be quite a demand for virtualbox, notably from recent forum members. I suppose the method given in the wiki for Bullseye would be preferable for most users to "upgrading" the entire system to testing or sid but, speaking for myself, I'm more than happy with QEMU.
DebianStable
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$ vrms
No non-free or contrib packages installed on debian! rms would be proud.
- stevepusser
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Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
Debian isn't always on top of updates--I'm working on packages right now for MX because youtube-dl is broken and youtube-dlp needs packaging. That leads to SMPlayer also needing an update if you watch Youtube videos in it, and that's also not even a twinkle in any Debian maintainer's eye.
You could set up your own backports "PPA" (Not A PPA!) on the openSUSE build service. They'll build packages from the Debian source for various Debian releases...Sid has just transitioned to gcc-11, which means some programs may not build on it (Pale Moon in my OBS repo, for example).
You could set up your own backports "PPA" (Not A PPA!) on the openSUSE build service. They'll build packages from the Debian source for various Debian releases...Sid has just transitioned to gcc-11, which means some programs may not build on it (Pale Moon in my OBS repo, for example).
MX Linux packager and developer
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Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
I am on arm64, so my options are some what limited. For example I can't just download Firefox and use it.
Even though I am running Sid, Snaps and Flatpaks have newer versions of several apps, and even have apps not in the repos.
SNS is a way of life. If it isn't as new as possible it is old. And old just plain stinks.
Installed flatpaks:
Snaps, only one actual app. Firefox Beta 94.0b6-1
Apps that I have installed that have .deb packages:
Koreader
opensnitch
Vivaldi
webapp-manager
Even though I am running Sid, Snaps and Flatpaks have newer versions of several apps, and even have apps not in the repos.
SNS is a way of life. If it isn't as new as possible it is old. And old just plain stinks.
Installed flatpaks:
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Name Application ID Version Branch Installation
Desktop Files Creator com.github.alexkdeveloper.desktop-files-creator 1.0.0 stable system
Wike com.github.hugolabe.Wike 1.6.0 stable system
Drawing com.github.maoschanz.drawing 0.8.3 stable system
Flatseal com.github.tchx84.Flatseal 1.7.4 stable system
Fluffychat im.fluffychat.Fluffychat 0.42.0 stable system
FreeTube io.freetubeapp.FreeTube 0.14.0 Beta stable system
LibreWolf io.gitlab.librewolf-community 93.0-1 stable system
Chromium Web Browser org.chromium.Chromium 94.0.4606.71 stable system
Codecs org.chromium.Chromium.Codecs stable system
Freedesktop Platform org.freedesktop.Platform 20.08.15 20.08 system
Freedesktop Platform org.freedesktop.Platform 21.08.4 21.08 system
Mesa org.freedesktop.Platform.GL.default 21.1.7 20.08 system
Mesa org.freedesktop.Platform.GL.default 21.2.2 21.08 system
ffmpeg-full org.freedesktop.Platform.ffmpeg-full 21.08 system
GNOME Application Platform version 40 org.gnome.Platform 40 system
Telegram Desktop org.telegram.desktop 3.1.9 stable system
Apps that I have installed that have .deb packages:
Koreader
opensnitch
Vivaldi
webapp-manager
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.69-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB
Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
My Giant Sources.list
Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
My Giant Sources.list
- wizard10000
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Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
As one of those people I don't *need* anything in Sid
For me computers are a hobby as well as an appliance and I've said it before but if I wasn't running Sid I'd probably be running Arch. Shiny New Stuff isn't a need but it does make me happy and I occasionally get to help out a little bit by filing bug reports.
we see things not as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
-- anais nin
Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
Not much at the moment, since Debian 11 is still fairly fresh and the software in the repos is largely doing the job fine for what I need.
I did grab a more recent version of Node.js because I needed that for something.
Another thing I wanted last week was a newer version of mpv because I wanted to switch from youtube-dl to yt-dlp to speed up load times, but mpvs config setting for using a custom yt-dl executable was added in a later version than the one I could get on Bullseye, and it wasn't in backports either. Ended up backporting a library dependency and mpv myself.
I do love to tinker on my machines and I find the experience of fetching source code and tinkering with it and compiling manually quite cathartic while keeping the important parts of the system stable.
I did grab a more recent version of Node.js because I needed that for something.
Another thing I wanted last week was a newer version of mpv because I wanted to switch from youtube-dl to yt-dlp to speed up load times, but mpvs config setting for using a custom yt-dl executable was added in a later version than the one I could get on Bullseye, and it wasn't in backports either. Ended up backporting a library dependency and mpv myself.
I do love to tinker on my machines and I find the experience of fetching source code and tinkering with it and compiling manually quite cathartic while keeping the important parts of the system stable.
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Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
How about old stuff that left without alternative, or things never done.
Before VW got in trouble they did alot of work around kernel 4.5-8 for OBDII which never trickled into any thing general. XP still works. Wines' video rendering is to inaccurate, so was virtualbox's. VFIO pass does fine. So never mind...
Aweather lost the maintainer some time back. Formerly in high altitude back country I found the big picture possible with Aweather is much better than a weather man. It will run under bullseye but not available. It does need some work, source redirects and newer dependencies. It crashes on >10MB downloads as it renders, but always fires back up and finishes fine.
Before VW got in trouble they did alot of work around kernel 4.5-8 for OBDII which never trickled into any thing general. XP still works. Wines' video rendering is to inaccurate, so was virtualbox's. VFIO pass does fine. So never mind...
Aweather lost the maintainer some time back. Formerly in high altitude back country I found the big picture possible with Aweather is much better than a weather man. It will run under bullseye but not available. It does need some work, source redirects and newer dependencies. It crashes on >10MB downloads as it renders, but always fires back up and finishes fine.
Re: What newer software do you want that's only in Bookworm or Sid?
That is my major concern with every new Debian version. There is always something I need that isn't there anymore and I have to hunt for alternatives. It's not really Debian's fault. Developers can't be condemned to rebuilding their earlier work every time an OS does a version upgrade. If no one else can be persuaded to take over old programs are abandoned.
I also agree with NFT5, above, "what features do they actually need . . . ?"