Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

Here you can discuss every aspect of Debian. Note: not for support requests!
Message
Author
User avatar
ueltume
Posts: 98
Joined: 2011-03-29 03:36

Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#1 Post by ueltume »

I tried an install with --no-install-recommends and one without it. Let me tell you, with --no-install-recommends my openoffice.org icons did not show, my windows partition in pcmanfm did not show, the trash function did not function well and other minor things. But WITHOUT using --no-install-recommends everything works perfectly. The openoffice.org icons are visible, my windows partition is displayed in the sidebar of pcmanfm, the trash works like it should and all my small issues are fixed. Besides, saving the "extra space" with --no-install-recommends is not worth it because the applications do not even take that much space.
Motheroard: G41M-ES2L w/ 2.60 Ghz 2-core proc., 2 GB RAM, & 1 GB Vid RAM
Debian 6 STABLE w/: slim lxde-core libdvdnav4&read4 gstreamerbad&ugly reportbug-ng chromium gecko-mediaplayer p7zip transmission epdfview openoffice bleachbit claws-mail

User avatar
kevin01123
Posts: 97
Joined: 2009-05-18 02:19

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#2 Post by kevin01123 »

I learned long ago that convenience > disk space used.

User avatar
ueltume
Posts: 98
Joined: 2011-03-29 03:36

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#3 Post by ueltume »

Thank you for phrasing this in a consice sentence.
Motheroard: G41M-ES2L w/ 2.60 Ghz 2-core proc., 2 GB RAM, & 1 GB Vid RAM
Debian 6 STABLE w/: slim lxde-core libdvdnav4&read4 gstreamerbad&ugly reportbug-ng chromium gecko-mediaplayer p7zip transmission epdfview openoffice bleachbit claws-mail

User avatar
dark_stang
Posts: 243
Joined: 2008-08-21 05:31
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#4 Post by dark_stang »

Storage space is super cheap these days anyway. I picked up a 1TB WD Black drive a few months back for $60, that's $0.06/GB... So all that extra software will only cost you a few pennies.
if (You_Dont_Care_Enough_To_Reasearch_Your_Own_Problems)
return "Why would I?";
else
return Helpful_Response;

User avatar
kevin01123
Posts: 97
Joined: 2009-05-18 02:19

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#5 Post by kevin01123 »

Not to mention all that time wasted trying to figure out what the hell package(s) to install to get full functionality.

secipolla
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#6 Post by secipolla »

I use no-install-recommends with specific packages.
Like for instance I have installed gdm3 like that because I have Xfce and don't want some extra apps that it brings as recommends and that aint fundamental.
It's useful if you know what's going on.

So two reasons among others could be uncluttering the menu or for old rigs prevent installation and activation of uneeded services.
Also what's convenience for some (regarding extra features) in inconvenience for others.

emariz
Posts: 2923
Joined: 2008-10-17 07:59

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#7 Post by emariz »

Had you cared to read the information about the packages that were not going to be installed, you wouldn't be whining now.
Read the package's description and online documentation, understand the dependency chain and learn how to use the package manager. Then try again.

User avatar
kevin01123
Posts: 97
Joined: 2009-05-18 02:19

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#8 Post by kevin01123 »

emariz wrote:Had you cared to read the information about the packages that were not going to be installed, you wouldn't be whining now.
Read the package's description and online documentation, understand the dependency chain and learn how to use the package manager. Then try again.
While it may or may not be true that he did that, condescending to him/her does little to inspire an individual.

User avatar
dust hill resident
Posts: 240
Joined: 2007-05-18 13:31

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#9 Post by dust hill resident »

A condescending person is worse than a whining person any day.

I think what secipolla is sensible. --no-install-recommends is good when used on specific packages rather than everything you install.

secipolla
Posts: 1127
Joined: 2010-06-21 14:20

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#10 Post by secipolla »

Also one can choose which recommended package to (not) install.
Suppose package foo has, among others, bar as a dependency and we don't want it to be installed. Just append a minus sign after bar.

Code: Select all

apt-get install foo bar-

User avatar
kevin01123
Posts: 97
Joined: 2009-05-18 02:19

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#11 Post by kevin01123 »

secipolla wrote:Also one can choose which recommended package to (not) install.
Suppose package foo has, among others, bar as a dependency and we don't want it to be installed. Just append a minus sign after bar.

Code: Select all

apt-get install foo bar-
I didn't know this, thank you.

User avatar
craigevil
Posts: 5395
Joined: 2006-09-17 03:17
Location: heaven
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 29 times

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#12 Post by craigevil »

bahhumbug.

The first thing I do after a base install is edit my apt.conf or I should say create a new apt.conf

Code: Select all

$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf

// auto-remove breaks on meta packages
APT::Get::AutomaticRemove "0";
APT::Get::HideAutoRemove "1";

// Recommends are as of now still abused in many packages
APT::Install-Recommends "0";
APT::Install-Suggests "0";
Debug::pkgAutoRemove "0";

// PDiffs reduce the required download for apt-get update, but increase the
// CPU requirements and quite often fail.
// Acquire::PDiffs "0";

// Remove apt unauthenticated warnings
APT::Get::AllowUnauthenticated "0";
Seven years of running sid and never had any issues caused by packages not being installed. I do however take a look at the Recommended or Suggested packages when doing an install and sometimes install them.

Not everyone has the money for tons of drive space. I am currently using a THinkpad R40 that only has a 16gb HD, once I copy a few of my books to the drive and install all of the things I need I only have 5GB free.

Code: Select all

$ df -h
Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/debian-root
                       16G  9.2G  5.1G  65% /
tmpfs                 632M  8.0K  632M   1% /lib/init/rw
udev                  627M  216K  627M   1% /dev
tmpfs                 632M  572K  632M   1% /dev/shm
/dev/sda1             228M   35M  181M  17% /boot
Raspberry PI 400 Distro: Raspberry Pi OS Base: Debian Sid Kernel: 5.15.56-v8+ aarch64 DE: MATE Ram 4GB
Debian - "If you can't apt install something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
My Giant Sources.list

User avatar
sjukfan
Posts: 387
Joined: 2010-03-01 19:39

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#13 Post by sjukfan »

Depends on the box really, even if I usually turn off recommends. But as with craigevil's laptop there's some occasions where you don't want extra everything. One of my computers is running off a 6Gb microdrive and there you don't want anything unnecessary.
Bullseye amd64, AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Buster amd64, Intel Xeon E3-1240 v3
Sid ppc, PowerPC 7447a
Sid ppc64, PowerPC 970FX

User avatar
nadir
Posts: 5964
Joined: 2009-10-05 22:06
Location: away

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#14 Post by nadir »

What kind of nonsense is that?
Sometimes one might want recommends, sometimes not. Just cause OpenOffice sucks without the recommends does ot mean that --no-install-recommends is bad in general.

And honestly: that barely is a serious issue. Just install the recommends after you figure out that the first try did not work and go on with it. You make it sound as if the world has fallen into pieces.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

User avatar
Mr James
Posts: 1258
Joined: 2010-09-10 13:02

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#15 Post by Mr James »

Unless one is on a PC from the dark ages with a tiny HDD, I see no reason to use --without-recommends
asus S551L laptop :: debian stable :: dwm

User avatar
nadir
Posts: 5964
Joined: 2009-10-05 22:06
Location: away

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#16 Post by nadir »

Mr James wrote:Unless one is on a PC from the dark ages with a tiny HDD, I see no reason to use --without-recommends
You mean like installing gdm if i install lxde, even if i don't want to use it? The recommends for avant-window-navigator? ...
Sure, makes perfect sense to install software you will never use only cause the space is there.
"I am not fine with it, so there is nothing for me to do but stand aside." M.D.

ArconsII
Posts: 78
Joined: 2010-09-25 22:18

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#17 Post by ArconsII »

In my opinion, using aptitude precisely and knowing when to install and not install recommends far more effective than asserting its "always" or "never" a good idea to install recommends.

User avatar
Mr James
Posts: 1258
Joined: 2010-09-10 13:02

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#18 Post by Mr James »

nadir wrote:
Mr James wrote:Unless one is on a PC from the dark ages with a tiny HDD, I see no reason to use --without-recommends
You mean like installing gdm if i install lxde, even if i don't want to use it? The recommends for avant-window-navigator? ...
Sure, makes perfect sense to install software you will never use only cause the space is there.
Remind me again why someone wanting to install lxde would go for gdm and not slim for example?
asus S551L laptop :: debian stable :: dwm

arcfxn
Posts: 1
Joined: 2013-05-27 18:44

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#19 Post by arcfxn »

I know I'm necroposting here, but you guys are all wrong about this. There are plenty of valid reasons to use --no-install-recommends that have nothing to do with hard drive space.

Here's a great example that I'm currently experiencing, which is how I stumbled onto this page:

I'm currently setting up selinux on my debian web server. If I let it install recommended packages for selinux-basics and auditd, it will install a GUI that depends on an X server. Again, this is a web server - everything is CLI. Not only do I have no need of an X environment and no means of using it, but X is also the single biggest security threat to a linux box. I don't want to install an entire graphical environment I have no use for, so I use --no-install-recommends. That's why it exists, because sometimes recommended packages will really mess things up for you.

User avatar
thanatos_incarnate
Posts: 717
Joined: 2012-11-04 20:36

Re: Why --no-install-recommends may not be good

#20 Post by thanatos_incarnate »

It really depends on the package.
For instance, I wanted to install Cheese on an Xfce machine the other day - the recommend pulls in nautilus-sendto, which pulls in nautilus. --__--

Post Reply