Pure Wayland anyone?

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LE_746F6D617A7A69
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#21 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

The Wayland protocol has been invented to *improove* the existing X11 protocol, but what is really funny, X11 deficiencies are becoming increasingly irrelevant, proportionally to the increase of HW performance.
In other words: RedHat wants to replace a stable X11 protocols with *unstable* wayland protocol, while in the mean time the performance of hardware has been increased so much, that it doesn't make any sense to switch to the wayland protocol (from the performance point of view)

That's not surprising - if You take into account that many of Debian "developers" are also a RedHat employees - that also explains why they have chosen RedHat's systemd as a replacement for sysvinit (instead of OpenRC, f.e.). This voting has been questioned by dasein in his famous post: Combatting revisionist history

(I never liked this guy, but math is always telling the truth)
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#22 Post by steve_v »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: 2022-01-07 22:23The Wayland protocol has been invented to *improove* the existing X11 protocol, but what is really funny, X11 deficiencies are becoming increasingly irrelevant proportionally to the increase of HW performance.
Wayland was invented to *replace* the existing X11 protocol.
The primary goal of wayland isn't improving performance either, it's getting rid of all the insecure and difficult to maintain legacy X11 code that nothing is really using any more anyway. Better performance is just a side-effect.
As seems to be the way of things these days, it was decided to start again from scratch rather than fixing X. I'm not entirely convinced on that one, but hey, I don't have to maintain it so I don't really get a say.

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: 2022-01-07 22:23That's not surprising - if You take into account that many of Debian "developers" are also a RedHat employees - that also explains why they have chosen RedHat's systemd as a replacement for sysvinit
You don't say... This is not some kind of breaking conspiracy, and it doesn't really need pointing out all the time either. Redhat & co is simply where the money is, and it's been that way for quite some time.

I don't like Redhats stranglehold on GNU/Linux development much either TBH, but whinging about it really isn't going to change anything.

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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#23 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

For the record, I didn't used the term "conspiracy" at all ...
How about the Combatting revisionist history ??
steve_v wrote: 2022-01-07 22:35 Wayland was invented to *replace* the existing X11 protocol.
The primary goal of wayland isn't improving performance either, it's getting rid of all the insecure and difficult to maintain legacy X11 code that nothing is really using any more anyway. Better performance is just a side-effect.
That's funny -> so Wayland protocol is breaking lots of applications without providing any significant improvement? -> wake up, man :)
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#24 Post by steve_v »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: 2022-01-07 23:12How about the Combatting revisionist history ??
I am quite familiar with that excellent post, and it's author. Dasein made far more sense than you do, and without the unnecessarily combative tone.

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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#25 Post by canci »

I'm sure we can all agree on the fact that Wayland does a lot of things right that we miss in Xorg, but that it's not there yet for a lot of people to be a useful daily driver. Both of these things can be true simultaneously and we don't have to make a tinkling context out of it.

Speaking of not there yet... I've found out that the clipboard goodness I used when copying between vim's buffers to other GUI apps doesn't work anymore. Gotta look into that...
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#26 Post by steve_v »

canci wrote: 2022-01-07 23:39clipboard goodness I used when copying between vim's buffers to other GUI apps doesn't work anymore.
The whole "improved" application-isolation security model breaks a bunch of stuff we used to be able to do in X, the global clipboard and screen recording (without this pipewire "invent the sound-server wheel again, for the 20th time" nonsense) being prime examples.

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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#27 Post by canci »

Apparently, this has been somewhat fixed in a vim revision back in November, obviously too new for Bullseye.
https://github.com/vim/vim/issues/4727

I use this workaround for sway. Just mark the text in visual mode, press : and add:

Code: Select all

:w !wl-copy
So the complete instruction looks like this:

Code: Select all

:'<,'>:w !wl-copy
Depends on:

Code: Select all

apt show wl-clipboard
I map all of this to ;y in .vimrc

Code: Select all

xnoremap ;y :'<,'>:w !wl-copy<CR>
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#28 Post by clementishutin »

Because I can use xinput to disable the centre button on my laptop's touch pad, I stick to X on Fedora. Wayland divides the button area into three equal portions, so I frequently receive a middle button while I'm looking for a left click.

So I instal X and type "xinput set-button-map 13 1 1 3" into the command prompt.

Make the middle button area mapped to the left button with xinitrc.

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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#29 Post by canci »

I think you can do that in Wayland, too. The difference is that this sort of configuration is left to the individual compositor nowadays rather than Xorg. So instead of doing xinput or editing /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/ you just use your window manager's config or in Gnome you'd use gsettings if that option isn't in the GUI.

Example for Sway from its config file:

Code: Select all

### Input configuration
#
# Example configuration:
#
#   input "2:14:SynPS/2_Synaptics_TouchPad" {
#       dwt enabled
#       tap enabled
#       natural_scroll enabled
#       middle_emulation enabled
#   }
#
# You can get the names of your inputs by running: swaymsg -t get_inputs
# Read `man 5 sway-input` for more information about this section.
I think disabling middle_emulation would do the same, or am I wrong?
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#30 Post by argentwolf »

The drama continues...

"XWayland 22.1 Planned For Release Next Month"
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... 1-Released
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#31 Post by canci »

BTW, I've found the original release announcement of X. It predates my existence by 3 months :)

https://www.talisman.org/x-debut.shtml
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#32 Post by argentwolf »

A new article to add to the discussion... 8)

"Less Than 10% Of Firefox Users On Linux Are Running Wayland"
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page= ... -X11-Stats
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#33 Post by canci »

Most Firefox users will probably be using what's default. And that's probably going to be Ubuntu+Xorg.
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#34 Post by SebMayer »

bedtime wrote: 2021-12-28 18:14
So, I've made the plunge a couple of weeks ago. I'm really pleasently surprised! sway is rock solid. It's a much different experience than using Gnome on Wayland. It's basically i3 with a few differences. I've also removed xwayland in order to easily spot all the GUI stuff that I had to change.
I found a couple of bugs in i3. One is that I cannot set up mouse clicks to run commands, such as WIN+<left mouse click> to close a window. Another bug is with firefox menus flickering. This bug has been around for about a year, so I'm not holding my breath.
seriale Netflix za darmo
I've had this annoying bug where playing Youtube on mpv would crash the entire X Server. That's gone now! I can finally watch online streams again without using a browser. Videos never drop frames or cause screen tearing and there isn't this milliseconds long freeze when going fullscreen in a video.
I'm on bullseye, and my mpv player will not play youtube videos with yt-dlp. Apparently, the version of mpv is too old. Tried installing via backports, but that didn't help either as the version is still not recent enough.
https://berich.eu/
I don't have a decent run dialogue any more. dmenu uses Xwayland, which I want to avoid and wofi just isn't as good as rofi. Any tips there?
Wofi doesn't seem to have all the options, but I find it works well enough for me for now. Maybe you can submit a feature request?

Anyways, I'm still using pure wayland as it offers me just what I need. Also, you can do screen recording with wf-recorder.
I'm not exactly complaining. It offers me everything I need. Sometimes unwanted things happen, but that's how programs work. Nothing is completely perfect. Sometimes you have to compromise.

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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#35 Post by bedtime »

SebMayer wrote: 2022-02-07 21:41I'm not exactly complaining. It offers me everything I need. Sometimes unwanted things happen, but that's how programs work. Nothing is completely perfect. Sometimes you have to compromise.
Agreed, and I'm still using Wayland exclusively for all my computing needs.

...

I used Falkon for about a month or more, and found it to be a decent browser for Wayland, but I've been having issues with right-clicking. Sometimes the click is detected, and sometimes not. Sometimes it'll open up something on the menu that I didn't click... It's gotten so frustrating that I just switched back to Firefox. That said, I think Falkon is a decent alternative, and it's worked well on all the streaming sites I've tried, which I cannot say the same for some other Linux browsers.

mpv has been working without any issues for me on Wayland. I use mpg123 for audio with no issues. wofi (a gui menu) still works like a champ but doesn't have all the features that rofi has. Works fine though, for me.

sleep, display dimming, hibernate, suspend, hybrid sleep, all still work on my Wayland setup, even as I use a USB stick for my HD.

Might as well go all in on the future of Linux, so I'm using BTRFS as my filesystem.

Just incase anyone was thinking of giving Wayland a try, these 'export' variables might be helpful to get one started:

~/.profile:

Code: Select all

...
export GDK_BACKEND=wayland
export QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland
#export QT_QPA_PLATFORM=wayland-egl
export CLUTTER_BACKEND=wayland
export SDL_VIDEODRIVER=wayland
export EWOL_BACKEND=wayland
export MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1
export XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000
# chmod -R 777 /run/user/1000

export XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland
export XKB_DEFAULT_LAYOUT=us
export XKB_DEFAULT_VARIANT=altgr-intl
export WLR_XWAYLAND=''
...
And, welcome to the future, guys and gals! 8)

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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#36 Post by canci »

Thanks for the update and those export variables.
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Re: Pure Wayland anyone?

#37 Post by canci »

Anyone else having problems running Doom Emacs on Sway, even though other X stuff runs fine through XWayland?
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Asus VivoBook X421DA D413DA 1.0
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sway on Wayland
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8 GB RAM, 512GB NVMe drive

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