operating systems without systemd

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harrycaul
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#31 Post by harrycaul »

Linadian wrote: Salix Xfce is looking good too, added to my non-virusd alternatives list.
+1 for Salix Xfce here. I also like their Sourcery GUI for slapt-src.

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fleabus
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#32 Post by fleabus »

harrycaul wrote:+1 for Salix Xfce here. I also like their Sourcery GUI for slapt-src.
Been using Salix myself since August or so. I had installed Slackware a few times and began exploring their documentation, then discovered Salix -- since I cut my teeth on Debian, its dependency resolution made sense. Also using the Xfce version. spi is nice, checks for both binary packages and available slackbuilds.

bettylou
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#33 Post by bettylou »

You can add Kali Linux to the list.

fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#34 Post by fruitofloom »

I added Salix and Slitaz.
Thanks.
Give me convenience or give me death.

fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#35 Post by fruitofloom »

edbarx wrote:An interesting question related to this thread would be:
Which OSs use apt and which ones have built-in package dependency resolution?

I know of Slackware, but it doesn't have built-in package resolution. It also unduly installs about 8 Giga Bytes as default to make up for its lack of dependency resolution.

I found bypassing ISOs by using programs like debootstrap very attractive to my requirements. I also need an OS that supports chroot maintenance from within another OS. chroot should also be provided by the candidate distribution.

The last requirement is to have binary packages available as compiling everything on a P4 or a T4400 machine looks quite daunting.

Till now, I haven't decided using something else in place of Debian, as Debian offers a huge repository of software, and I want to have development tools available like gcc, g++, lazarus , medit, and obviously the accompanying development libraries - hopefully I didn't forget anything important.
Are your seriously asking if there are distros out there without a C or C++ compiler?
Well: or even an OS ...

Something similar can be said about chroot. That really is not a Debian specific thing.

That said:
What you seem to ask for ( binary packages too): FreeBSD seems most close, from what i know. But it doesn't sound as if you would really ask.
Give me convenience or give me death.

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Linadian
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#36 Post by Linadian »

bettylou wrote:You can add Kali Linux to the list.
This is Kali's 1.0.9a package list from Distrowatch, you're right, there is NO virusd right now, but that's now, it they continue to follow Sheepian's repos, they too may get sucked in to the virusd toilet...eventually. Personally, I'm after long-term, a distro that doesn't bend over for arrogant corporate slopware punks. :roll:
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fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#37 Post by fruitofloom »

Besides that: A distro with software that specialized doesn't seem to sound like a good solution if all one wants is to get rid of systemd.
(me thinks Kali isn't a good solution anyway. Someone not able to install metasploit on his own shouldn't even consider to pentest a network. To each is own, or course).

PS: i missed Porteus. Added it too. If that happens again: feel free to bug me.
Give me convenience or give me death.

fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#38 Post by fruitofloom »

Slightly elder and incomplete list of software which doesn't need systemd (created by Dean, aka mr-aka)
Might be worth a thread on it's own ... am open for suggestions.


preferences file:
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

basics
xorg
alsa-base
alsa-utils



user environments & components
jwm
icewm
fluxbox
openbox
ratpoison
sawfish

fbpanel
lxpanel

deskmenu

razorqt-desktop
razorqt-panel
razorqt-runner
razorqt-session
razorqt-config



file managers
pcmanfm
xfe
doublecmd-gtk
doublecmd-qt
rox-filer




login manager
xdm
wdm
qingy




ide/editors
geany
scite
mousepad
leafpad


terminals
lxterminal
mrxvt
xterm
rxvt
roxterm


web browsers
iceweasel
chromium
arora
xxxterm
dillo
surf
netsurf
qupzilla


email clients
sylpheed
claws-mail



web software
filezilla
weechat
lostirc
irssi
aria2


office
abiword
gnumeric
osmo


misc
gourmet



audio/video
moc
vlc-nox



utilities
file-roller
xarchiver
grun
pmount
Give me convenience or give me death.

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fleabus
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#39 Post by fleabus »

Porteus was made from Slax. Or because of Slax, or something... :)

Does Slax count? < :oops: > Oops, missed that, it's already there...
Last edited by fleabus on 2014-11-03 15:17, edited 2 times in total.

bettylou
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#40 Post by bettylou »

Yes Kali may some day use systemd and yes fruitofloom my not think it worthy, but it is an OS without systemd... as specified by the OP.

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Linadian
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#41 Post by Linadian »

bettylou wrote:Yes Kali may some day use systemd and yes fruitofloom my not think it worthy, but it is an OS without systemd... as specified by the OP.
You are right, if I appeared abrasive, my apologies, I'm not mad at you, I'm mad at the box full of tools, aka the Debian leadership.

I just built this machine and was looking forward to a fast box with no headaches for the next 5 years or so, Debian was my #1 distro of choice, now I have to scramble to find a suitable alternative. I dumped Windows because of 'mystery-ware', I'm not having yet another corporation (Redshat) shove more mystery-ware down my throat.

I know, I'm repeating myself now but this is serious, it's not fully proven software, it's not user friendly, it takes over your OS like a bad virus, it enables your OS to crash because it's a control freak (it wants to do everything and be everything, exactly what was wrong with svchost in Windows), that's what attracted me to Linux, things ran OUTSIDE the kernel, now Redshat and Poettering are spreading this mystery-ware crash-tool like wildfire. PC-BSD is looking better everyday, part of the BSD model is to implement well proven software in increments, not this adopt any garbage for any reason bull$#1+, like in Linux-land.

It's just a matter of time until some 12 year old pimply faced kid finds an exploit in this buggy monstrosity, then watch everybody drop it like a hot potato, or adopt uselessd, which is the balanced solution, maintained by the community and compatible with the Poettering blob, which potentially could be or become NSA-ware.

I'm gunna do a test install of PC-BSD on my old machine, get my feet wet, this Debian install is still good to surf the web for BSD tips and tricks, lol, that's about it, once the BSD learning curve is over, I'm outta here.

My tinfoil hat is on fire again, lol, it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.

Edit: Here is another option as suggested in a debianuserforums.org post, try Debian with the kFreeBSD kernel. To quote Bob Marley, "Exodus, movement of Jah people", lol.

Edit 2: Status of Xfce (default) and other DEs on Debian kFreeBSD 7.7 (Wheezy).

Edit 3: NO virusd in debian-7.7.0-kfreebsd-amd64-DVD-1.iso. Use a mirror, it's a way faster download than the main Debian server. Edit 4: The Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD net install would probably be a better bet (if your nic is supported on boot that is). The net install md5sum is here, scroll down (this page may become obsolete in the future, always match the file name with the md5 supplied).
Image

Edit 5: This is an interesting read (a little schizophrenic considering what's happening with the Linux arm of Debian), Why would you prefer Debian GNU/kFreeBSD to Debian GNU/Linux?.

Edit 6: More Debian Wheezy kFreeBSD good news, there's a deb-multimedia.org kfreebsd-amd64 wheezy/stable repo (no 'non-free' though, only 'main'). Big plus for me. :idea:
Last edited by Linadian on 2014-11-03 22:47, edited 4 times in total.
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fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#42 Post by fruitofloom »

bettylou wrote:Yes Kali may some day use systemd and yes fruitofloom my not think it worthy, but it is an OS without systemd... as specified by the OP.
If it makes you happy i will add it to the list now, adding a note that it isn't what most people are looking for if looking for a distro.
Mainly cause i am not in the mood to discuss it ...
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golinux
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#43 Post by golinux »

Linadian wrote: . . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.
That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.
May the FORK be with you!

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Linadian
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#44 Post by Linadian »

golinux wrote:
Linadian wrote: . . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.
That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.
Thank you. Sometimes I just blurt out the way I feel, shut what little 'filter' I have off, lol. The sig suggestion is a great idea, just may take you up on that. :mrgreen:
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golinux
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#45 Post by golinux »

Linadian wrote:
golinux wrote:
Linadian wrote: . . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first.
That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.
Thank you. Sometimes I just blurt out the way I feel, shut what little 'filter' I have off, lol. The sig suggestion is a great idea, just may take you up on that. :mrgreen:
In with both feet huh?! You could tone down the formatting a bit . . . ;)
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#46 Post by edbarx »

I have just tried to install SID on a free partition to try removing systemd. The installation completed with some problems but it was completed successfully. However, when I booted the installation several daemons failed to load or reported errors. There were more than five red errors during systemd's booting sequence! After that, I replaced systemd with sysvinit in a chroot notwithstanding the DDs are becoming allergic to support chroot. Ignoring all the warnings that systemd is a core component, I typed "Do, as I say!" and proceeded. Then, I installed sysvinit, and oddly enough, this stale old initialisation package worked without the least shred of errors!

The problem with systemd is that it is still ALPHA grade software: Debian deserves far better than that!

My next move will be to upgrade the test Jessie installation to SID to conduct more experiments on the removal of systemd.
Debian == { > 30, 000 packages }; Debian != systemd
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fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#47 Post by fruitofloom »

The thread was supposed to offer a list of
"operating systems without systemd"
not about discussing good or bad things about systemd
(those discussions are getting old).

Imho:
You can run Sid and Testing without systemd and libsystemd0, but it is a dirty workaround and you don't know when it will fail on you.
Right now it might work. In two weeks it might be possible no more.

That is: For people who already decided to give up on Debian GNU/*Linux*.
Hence i put it in the offtopic section.
It is related to Debian in so far as it is for people who used Debian in the past. And now are looking for better solutions.

---
In general i think a thread should take it's own course, whatever it's original intend might have been.
Just saying.
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golinux
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#48 Post by golinux »

It's easy to get all these systemd threads confused . . . ;)
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fruitofloom
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#49 Post by fruitofloom »

Heck, i even start to complain at places where pretty much no one knows what that Linux thing is ...
(and sure not about the difference between distros, or init-systems, or such ).

So yes:
I think what edbarx tries is possible (for sure if libsystemd0 gives no worries). Probably a good idea too.
Not sure how hard it will be in the long run. Not sure if it is worth it.
Hence i decided to leave Debian. Might well be i will be back (as soon there is a serious change according to the main problem: systemd).
Give me convenience or give me death.

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Linadian
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Re: operating systems without systemd

#50 Post by Linadian »

golinux wrote: ". . . it seems the powers that be want everybody using stupid, ugly, bizarre Gnome with virusd under the hood, I'd rather take an axe to my PC first."

That has to be the "Quote of the Day". Would be a great sig.
golinux wrote:In with both feet huh?! You could tone down the formatting a bit . . . ;)
Yeah, you have a point, lol, will do. :mrgreen:
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