Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :LOL:

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LE_746F6D617A7A69
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Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :LOL:

#1 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

Windows Package Manager

EDIT:

Code: Select all

>winget install terminal
Really?

I'd like to see the source code...
Last edited by LE_746F6D617A7A69 on 2020-05-20 14:12, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#2 Post by eriefisher »

Although I have not touched a Windows machine in some time this looks interesting. Some kind of fork of apt. This should be better than downloading some random package and double clicking to install. I wonder who is vetting these 3rd party repos?

I almost want to jump on a win10 machine and try it! Never mind, I don't know what I was thinking.
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LE_746F6D617A7A69
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#3 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

eriefisher wrote:Some kind of fork of apt
But APT is GPL-ed - that's why I'd like to see the code.

BTW, I wonder if this project will be so "successful" as their previous killer project: REFS :lol:

EDIT:
I'm blind: the sources are here:
https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli

I've just started to investigate what's inside...
Last edited by LE_746F6D617A7A69 on 2020-05-20 15:09, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#4 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Yes, Microsoft are a lot keener on open source now that they've finally realised that they can get their fans to work on the code for free. Moar profit!

Tangentially related: DirectX on WSL.
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#5 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

EDIT2:
Quoting myself:
I'm blind: the sources are here:
https://github.com/microsoft/winget-cli
Not really:
For a while I was shocked: Microshit project with open source code and MIT License? - Impossible... something stinks here...
And indeed, I wasn't wrong: that code on github just implements the interface to Windows Package Manager service deployed in Azure cloud - so it's actually a closed source project.

So, still I'd like to see the code ...

@HOAS: I've edited my previous post, and moved EDIT2 here to keep thread consistency

EDIT3:
Head_on_a_Stick wrote:Tangentially related: DirectX on WSL.
I've checked this link: the core of this project is also closed source:
libd3d12.so and libdxcore.so are closed source, pre-compiled user mode binaries that ship as part of Windows. These binaries are compatible with glibc based distros and are automatically mounted under /usr/lib/wsl/lib
This project is directly targeted at killing OpenCL and Vulkan.

So what the hell is going on?

Call me paranoid, but I think that we are facing a new wave of attacks on Linux - Embrace,Extend,Extinguish

Regards.
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#6 Post by cuckooflew »

Thanks for the Embrace, extend and exterminate link I do hope people read it, I am quoting part here:
"Embrace, extend, and extinguish" (EEE),[1] also known as "embrace, extend, and exterminate",[2] is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found[3] was used internally by Microsoft[4] to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences in order to strongly disadvantage its competitors.
I often also feel Linux is becoming Windows, as more and more MS windows users try Linux, and often complain it is not like MS windows, so many developers try to make certain distros more like ms windows in efforts to attract more users, I guess, any way,....On one hand , it is good if both systems are more compatible, ...............I am tired now, maybe later ZZZzzzZZZzzzzZZzz
Seriously , it is a interesting topic though, but just to tired,...
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#7 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote:I think that we are facing a new wave of attacks on Linux
Yes, I also thought "EEE" when I saw that story. A leopard never changes it's spots...
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#8 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

Actually (and fortunately) they are not so clever - the EEE method is well known (but maybe not for new Linux users - this can be a problem - so this topic might be helpful).

The problem with Microshit is that many people simply don't know what is this all about - MS recently have put a lot of effort to present themselves as "just another company who contributes to open source community" - while in fact this is a rotten corporation, targeted only on killing innovation - because innovation kills their own low-quality products and therefore profits: Microsoft simply produces low quality software which is sold for ridiculous prices (like f.e. their shitty server OS-es, which are basically not better than Win10 Home Edition).

History should learn us how to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
Most of people have completely no idea how Bill Gates actually created that monster, known as Microshit today, so here's the full story:
http://antitrust.slated.org/www.vanwens ... hateMS.pdf

Despite the title, this is a very well documented history of Microshit - up to year 2005 - I think that every Linux user should become familiar with this document - to understand what is the scale of damages that Microsoft did to IT world and who they really are.

Regards.
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#9 Post by Head_on_a_Stick »

Same old shit from Microsoft (apologies for the Medium link, disable javascript before clicking to limit the pain):

https://medium.com/@probonopd/microsoft ... f91023e4b8
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#10 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:(apologies for the Medium link, disable javascript before clicking to limit the pain):
No problemo: In my browsers the Javashit is disabled by default: I'm enabling it only when it's absolutely necessary ;)

Your post is interesting - it shows that Microshit is not only "borrowing" the ideas and code (simply stealing - like the VMS kernel code) - but also they don't care about trademarks - what means they don't care about the law regulations. The community behind the Maui project is probably too small to afford costs resulting from suing such a giant as Microshit -> so they could feel safe, at least for now (fortunately, EU is not US - we are respecting the law and I suppose that MS will be punished for this quite soon...)
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#11 Post by arzgi »

LE_746F6D617A7A69 wrote: History should learn us how to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
Most of people have completely no idea how Bill Gates actually created that monster, known as Microshit today, so here's the full story:
http://antitrust.slated.org/www.vanwens ... hateMS.pdf
Thanks, was really interesting to read. Confirmed again did the right choice leaving MS$ after win95.

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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#12 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

Another "coincidence":

Microsoft's GSL vs GNU GSL

The GNU GSL was ported to almost every platform existing on the planet Earth - including Windows, where it was available for at least 15 years - haven't they noticed?

.. not even funny ...
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#13 Post by cuckooflew »

Good morning,

I would trust the second link and source: https://www.gnu.org/software/gsl/ But would not trust the first...
by arzgi »Confirmed again did the right choice leaving MS$ after win95.
Hmm, well good decision, I tried windows 1.0when it was released, but did not like it, and aslo noticed it seemed to be self destructive, so I wiped my hd and re-installed DOS, yes it was MS dos, but that is another topic, then when windows 3.1 , they claimed it was better, tried again, but it made a mess and I had to format, install Dos again, shortly after, I saw the announcement aboutFreeDos, on USENET, I was all ready using Unix, when online, my host being a Unix powered server,.. any way, this was also when I was introduced to open source software as well, it was fun and exciting, lot's of new programs and software , yes sometimes, in fact often there were bugs, but there also usually was a form of sorts to submit /report the bug, and of course , since it was open source it was also possible to find my own solution to the bug or problem, ahh those were the "good old days",... any way I never did look back as far as MS windows goes, and also started using FreeDos instead of MS Dos, I asked on USENET about some kind of Unix, or Unix like system I could run on a normal PC, it was Jim Hall that suggested Linux, I don't remember what user name I used back then, but any way, guess I am rambling and going way off topic here, sorry...ahh the meds are kicking in, and I have a lot of chores to do, so that's all folks!, for now any way :mrgreen:
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#14 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

The description of Microsoft's GSL project is:
The Guidelines Support Library (GSL) contains functions and types that are suggested for use by the C++ Core Guidelines maintained by the Standard C++ Foundation.
They are referring to CppCoreGuidelines project - so a natural and logical name for the library would be for example CppCoreGuidelinesLibrary -> CCGL or LCCG, but instead they're using "Guidelines Support Library" name : what guidelines? - this name has nothing to do with C++ Core

I doubt that this is just an effect of hiring idiots...

In the past few weeks I've looked inside many of MS projects available on GitHub, and it become clear to me, that the MS movement toward open source is just one big lie.

Most of their projects are just open source front-ends to a closed source services or technologies created by Microshit. About 30..40% project is targeting MS Azure Cloud services, many others are just extensions to PowerShell, extensions to VisualStudio or examples how to use DirectX.
Besides that they're cloning many server tools trying to make their windows-based versions, of course partially closed source.

Oh, and You can even run Linux on Azure Cloud

EEE
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#15 Post by pylkko »

The times have changed and that has also changed the meaning and significance of open source code. FOSS used to be able to protect against vendor lock-in and to protect the end user in the sense that they can decide, or even know for that matter, what the code on their machines is doing. On the machines that they own, they decide.

Large corporations have always realized how rentier capitalism is beneficial for them, but in computers the technology didn't really allow for doing it efficiently until very recently, as it requires non-stop internet connections. Now it is completely normal and desirable for younger people to acquire smart devices on which they do not own root/highest privileges. They don't even know/care what that is. In essence they rent that phone from Apple/Google who own it. Then they stream media from cloud services (i.e they rent it) instead of actually owning like an mp3 (remember those? the patent expired last year), and the automobile industry is piloting/developing self driving übers, so that it makes less sense to want to own a car in the future. Want to get somewhere quick, why bother actually owning an electric scooter with all the hassle of storing and repairing it? Rent it with an app. Any kind of new device that you buy today might have integrated "smart capabilities". This goes for things from watches to television, from fitness devices to kitchen appliances. In order to use it, download a small app, which in essence is a thin wrapper to a proprietary pay-to-use cloud service. Microsoft also understands this well, and they provide cloud office solutions to work places and stuff against rent.

The future is going to be a tough place to be in, especially if computers allow to extend this into everything. Hell, even work in many areas is now forced-entrepreneur rent (temp) labor (things like food delivery by Foodora). And with robotics and neural network-based tech replacing normal jobs, it gonna be harder and harder to say no to the corporations. By the way, it was just in the news last week that Microsoft are replacing their in-house journalists with bots.

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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#16 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

@pylkko I really appreciate Your post, but the problem is rather more complex:
Indeed, f.e. Google is behaving just like You have described, but Microshit is a different animal:
The "EEE" method they're using is targeted at killing competition/innovation, and if the competitive project is too "good", they are trying to obfuscate the situation, i.e. by creating "alternative" projects which are not really an alternative - but they have the same names ...

The key problem here is that education quality level is dropping from generation to generation - in the end there will be no single human who will know how to shut down all those "wonderful" services/servers/AI machines ...

..in the mean time however, Microshit will destroy FOSS, unless we will inform all the people what's going on ...

Regards
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#17 Post by pylkko »

I'm not sure they are doing anything different than other companies. Perhaps, but Chrome OS and OSX also use a package manager and app store and shell etc. I think a lot of people have a lot of hate for them because of the past, but what they are doing doesn't seem to me to be more worrisome than what other tech giants are doing. Don't forget that the linux foundation is mostly funded by Facebook, MS, Google etc.

In the television adds of Chrome books they even claim that if you migrate to them you will spend less time worrying about malware because of their package deployment. OSX and ChromeOS are real competitors for MS unlike desktop linux which has like less than 1% of the "market share". MS even started to call their programs "apps" now, so I think they are just worried that their OS will start to feel outdated to users that are used to mobile OS's, unless they change it. So they are stealing ideas from Chrome OS and OSX.

But if you do the thought experiment: "Ah, how would I design the most efficient trickle-up economy?" Anything invented by MS will be a pretty good contender in that scheme.

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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#18 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

pylkko wrote:I'm not sure they are doing anything different than other companies.
Have You ever heard of any Google or IOS project that is pretending to be a FOSS project by using the same name?
IOS community have forked APT - that's true, but first: it's the community project (the people), not the Apple project (corporation), second - they have changed the name of the project to avoid confusion - I think that the difference is quite clear...

My personal theory:
1. Microshit has to port their technology to ARM - their current ARM kernel implementation is a joke (speaking gently) (they are about to drop Intel on Surface)
2. Microshit doesn't have a file system - FAT32 has been "licensed" to Linus Torvalds (long file names), NTFS is a joke, ReFS is a total disaster - rememeber? a single man at Google have created EXT4 (Theodore Tso)
3. Their Hypervisors are even funnier joke - KVM is over it, eating their crappy hypervisors for breakfast...

Simply speaking, MS have never created a truly innovative project - all that they can do is to steal ideas and code - if this is impossible, they can buy a whole companies/projects (like f.e. Skype) - so they can pretend that they have "created" something.

Bill G. was a briliant salesmen - but also He was a thief and a very poor programmer ...
Now he is going to sell us a vaccine for covid-19 - a relly good salesman...

Regards
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#19 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

Forking, forking...

A clone of GitHub itself: https://github.com/microsoft/opensource-portal
A clone of Kubernetes: https://github.com/microsoft/kubernetes-autoscaler
A clone of Apache Kafka: https://github.com/microsoft/kafka
A clone of OpenVPN: https://github.com/microsoft/openvpn

Of course, forking is completely legal and it's allowed by the respective licenses, but there's one catch:
:arrow: Microsoft demands the developers to sign the MSCLA document (Contribution License Agreement).

The CLA clearly explains why MS is cloning the repos instead of contrbuting the code to original projects:
5. Licenses.
a. Copyright License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Submissiondirectly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license in the Submission to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, and distribute the Submission and such derivative works, and to sublicense any or all of the foregoing rights to third parties.
This basically allows MS to do just anything with the project, includig possibility of using the code in their own closed-source projects and changing the licensing terms for "third-parties". But foremost, it allows to put Microsoft logo on the cloned projects -> a classic case of EEE
...
MS Research Team has a funny explanation on why did they forked the OpenVPN: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/researc ... rypto-vpn/
The funny thing is, that their own RDP (Remote Desktop Protocol) is known to have many bugs and security holes - so instead of "improving" OpenVPN, they should do more "research" on their own shitty projects ... :lol:
.
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Re: Windows is becoming Linux - new Killer Project from MS :

#20 Post by LE_746F6D617A7A69 »

I Contribute to the Windows Kernel
Oh god, the NTFS code is a purple opium-fueled Victorian horror novel that uses global recursive locks and SEH for flow control. Let's write ReFs instead. (And hey, let's start by copying and pasting the NTFS source code and removing half the features! Then let's add checksums, because checksums are cool, right, and now with checksums we're just as good as ZFS? Right? And who needs quotas anyway?)
This partially explains why Microsoft have joined the Linux Foundation -> they are unable to maintain and develop that shitty Windows kernel code anymore... :mrgreen:

I'm guessing that Windows11 will run on Linux kernel + WSL :lol:

EDIT:
Proof: the SHA-1 hash of revision #102 of pagfault.c is 0cb82a9525a2158e2a87f5eb53d41e5936cee5a2
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