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Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!!

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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bester69
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Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!!

#1 Post by bester69 »

I was using rclone and borg 1.0 (stretch stable) and done my backup script for pushing into the cloud..

then I needed to purge my repositories backup to make free space available into the cloud providers disks... and for some reason i dont remember now I updated to borg 1.1 (backports) in the between..

these are the consequences I gave into .:
- firs consequence: the borg version changed chunks default size to bigger size of 500Mb..so when I was pushing those chunks and around 1,5Gbytes uloaded (several parts around 96% of upload completed)..i interrupted the backup script to resume later... then I started resume back and I realised only few kb were uploaded in server, cos I was using.: rclone sync --delete-before ... so Ive spare several hours for nothing cos new rclone version had bigger size of 500M and as those big chunks were uncompleted and was using (delete-before), in resume process they were dropped.. :x

- second consequence:. As I was using in the script with borg and no encryptation repository and only passphrase, I realised newer version wasnt making use of any setted password when used encryptation=none.. this new version needed encrtyptation=repokey in order to be able to make use of passphrase.. so that, I spared around three days uploading whole repositories into clouds without realising newer version wasnt making use of any passphare environment set, so that, those backups uploaded were unprotected in the cloud.. :x

- third consequence:. Newer version, make me edit and correct all my scripts backups.

- fourth consequence:. Plenty of headaches and losed time :?



And now, I have to upload again 20Gby into the cloud :?

And this is way i think it twice before updating any app if it is working properly
Last edited by bester69 on 2021-07-09 12:21, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#2 Post by Lysander »

I refer you to my discussion here - I know you're not necessarily talking about security issues, but this is definitely related to needlessly updating things:

https://www.linuxquestions.org/question ... -ii-38088/
L: With regard to security, people say they’ve never seen a Spectre or Meltdown attack in the wild. People are patching their machines like crazy and using microcode but I hear that there’ve been very few attacks.

M: What I’m going to say is very politically incorrect but I have never suffered from a security attack - well, I may have had an attack but I’ve never suffered a security incident. I’ve seen security incidents and I work in an area currently which is very sensitive to security but I’ve never ever seen anything. We run machines that have uptimes of 1,500 days that we don’t dare reboot anymore. Is that a good thing? No, it’s certainly not compliant with some of the auditory requirements that we’re supposed to be following and those machines are special-case machines, if you manage to penetrate the security in front of those machines - to get to them - in my view you deserve to have access! Because they’re not easy machines to get to, we can’t even get to them within the organisation. So it’s very difficult to say. My personal gut feeling is it’s too much of a religion and I have seen problems introduced by patching, I’ve seen systems break because of patching, I’ve seen new security holes arise because of patching. I’ve been to security conferences where they show you how easy it is to break into machines and no amount of patching is going to fix that and no amount of security scanning software is going to solve the problem.

If you can patch, and you can patch regularly and you can patch reliably and you can patch automatically then you may as well do it, as long as you have a good testing regime in there so you can test the stuff first. I personally, on my phone and on my computers, I make sure I’m not at the latest patch level.

L: You’re not?

M: No, I don’t want to be at the latest patch level.

L: Why not?

M: It’s nearly always broken in one way or another. I don’t like it, I hate it, I hate upgrading stuff on my phone, it’s always worse than it used to be.

L: How much risk is the average home computer user at?

M: No doubt there’s a risk of becoming part of a botnet. Of course there’s a risk, so what Windows do with their occasional patch releases is probably a good thing, but religiously patching with every single patch that comes out? I don’t think it’s worth it. I actually think it’s damaging. If you can afford it and you’ve got the time, it’s not going to do you any harm, well, it’s not going to do you much harm.

L: It’s kind of an “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” kind of thing?

M: I’m certainly a big believer in "if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it".

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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#3 Post by craigevil »

Simple solution install apt-listchanges
Description: package change history notification tool
The tool apt-listchanges can compare a new version of a
package with the one currently installed and show what has been
changed, by extracting the relevant entries from the Debian changelog
and NEWS files.
.
It can be run on several .deb archives at a time to get a list of all
changes that would be caused by installing or upgrading a group of
packages. When configured as an APT plugin it will do this
automatically during upgrades.
That along with apt-listbugs should be installed on any Debian system. Personally I run Sid and update more or less every 8 hours using package-update-indicator.

A Stable Debian system in my opinion should be using "unattended-upgrades" or apt-config-auto-update, to at the very least download updates automatically.

If you do not want to upgrade you should consider installing debsecan.
debsecan is a tool to generate a list of vulnerabilities which affect
a particular Debian installation. debsecan runs on the host which is
to be checked, and downloads vulnerability information over the
Internet. It can send mail to interested parties when new
vulnerabilities are discovered or when security updates become
available.
Along with security tools such as aide, tripwire, samhain, lynis.
Also take a look at:
debian-security-support
Debian security support coverage checker

Good luck not keeping your system updated.
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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#4 Post by wizard10000 »

rclone's default chunk size is 8mb.
--drive-chunk-size=SIZE (default SIZE=8192)
The chunk size for a transfer in kilobytes; must be a power of 2 and at least 256. Each chunk is buffered in memory prior to the transfer, so increasing this increases how much memory is used.
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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#5 Post by NFT5 »

bester69 wrote:- fourth consequence:. Plenty of headaches and losed time
Feel your pain. To get a few feature upgrades I decided to update my server to Bullseye. Nice - the upgrades that I wanted worked well, but..............there were even more issues getting other things, that worked perfectly in Buster, to work the way they should. So, four days written off and, in the end, although Bullseye is now working on the server, I'm back to running Buster on the desktop because I just don't have the time to set up all my VMs again because some Debian dev is having a snotfight with Oracle. It's all very well to take the moral high ground because you can, but If Debian were a commercial organisation the resultant screams from paying customers would have forced a resolution long ago.
bester69 wrote:and now, I have to upload again 20Gby into the cloud
Part of my upgrade was reorganising all my data. I don't use the cloud because I simply don't trust it, so use a series of local backups - a local cloud if you will. But even with a reasonably fast lan, moving 20TB takes a long time.
Lysander wrote:L: It’s kind of an “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” kind of thing?

M: I’m certainly a big believer in "if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it".
Oh, so true. Even I get sucked in by SNS syndrome, sometimes. :?

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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#6 Post by bester69 »

NFT5 wrote: Feel your pain. To get a few feature upgrades I decided to update my server to Bullseye. Nice - the upgrades that I wanted worked well, but..............there were even more issues getting other things, that worked perfectly in Buster, to work the way they should. So, four days written off and, in the end, although Bullseye is now working on the server, I'm back to running Buster on the desktop because I just don't have the time to set up all my VMs again because some Debian dev is having a snotfight with Oracle. It's all very well to take the moral high ground because you can, but If Debian were a commercial organisation the resultant screams from paying customers would have forced a resolution long ago.
Yes, these are common troubles you might you get into them if you're new on linux... that's why Im in favour of dont touch it if its working well.. and much more if youre working with server organisations ..
>> security updates are OK!!!

wizard10000 wrote:rclone's default chunk size is 8mb.
--drive-chunk-size=SIZE (default SIZE=8192)
The chunk size for a transfer in kilobytes; must be a power of 2 and at least 256. Each chunk is buffered in memory prior to the transfer, so increasing this increases how much memory is used.
yep, sorry i was tired when writting the message.. I was talking about borg's chunks; Ive corrected the post ...
:?
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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#7 Post by wizard10000 »

bester69 wrote:...I was talking about borg's chunks
Ah. That makes a lot more sense :)

I had to read up on borg a little bit. I think I get it and why one would want to use it but a 500mb segment still seems like a lot of data to lose at a time.
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Re: Why not a good thing to update apps if working properly!

#8 Post by bester69 »

wizard10000 wrote:
bester69 wrote:...I was talking about borg's chunks
Ah. That makes a lot more sense :)

I had to read up on borg a little bit. I think I get it and why one would want to use it but a 500mb segment still seems like a lot of data to lose at a time.
Thanks wizard for helping :o

indeed it was around 1,5G what i lost cos rclone uploads several chunks simultaleosly (i think it uploads three or four at the same time)...and all of them should be around 90% of completation process upload...and then, i resumed backup with rclone delete-before.. :? , perhaps my mistake was using delete-before flag..

I was using Box free account, but my repository backup has grown bigger than 10Gb and cant keep using Box anymore.. I was looking for some free cloud space bigger.. compatible with rclone.. and only seems to be Mega and Gdrive..and Mega has recentlly decrease to 20Gb
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