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Sadly amusing

Off-Topic discussions about science, technology, and non Debian specific topics.
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ticojohn
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Sadly amusing

#1 Post by ticojohn »

I spend a bit of time each day reading posts at this forum. I especially enjoy reading posts from newbies relating the issues they have with the installation of Debian, and get some sense of pleasure when a forum member is able to help said newbies with their issues. What I find sadly amusing is how many of those newbies make reference to some installation guide they found on YouTube or some other site. I have yet to see any of those people make a reference to the Debian Installation Guide. That guide, while very long and at times difficult to understand for a newbie, has been MY reference from the beginning of my Debian experience. Even after 12 years of using Debian I still go back to that guide when upgrading or installing a newer distro.

I know that people tend to live in a world where they want instant gratification, but going to some source of information other than the official Debian documents is kind of like taking your Mercedes to a Ford dealer to get it repaired.

Just my rant for the day. :mrgreen:
I am not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#2 Post by Bulkley »

+ 1

Debian really isn't for everyone.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#3 Post by ticojohn »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-08-07 15:48 + 1

Debian really isn't for everyone.
That is so true.
I am not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#4 Post by CwF »

ticojohn wrote: 2021-08-07 14:02 like taking your Mercedes to a Ford dealer to get it repaired
with a proximity to 'derivatives' it is more like taking their VW into an Audi dealership for warranty work and yelling "SAME THING" as if they know...

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Re: Sadly amusing

#5 Post by ticojohn »

Maybe Debian should come with a warning label:
Be prepared to think and learn;
otherwise stay with that other OS

:lol: :lol: :lol:
I am not irrational, I'm just quantum probabilistic.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#6 Post by stevepusser »

ticojohn wrote: 2021-08-07 14:02 I spend a bit of time each day reading posts at this forum. I especially enjoy reading posts from newbies relating the issues they have with the installation of Debian, and get some sense of pleasure when a forum member is able to help said newbies with their issues. What I find sadly amusing is how many of those newbies make reference to some installation guide they found on YouTube or some other site. ...
Bored now! Let's fight!

:P
MX Linux packager and developer

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NFT5
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Re: Sadly amusing

#7 Post by NFT5 »

Now that we have a forum that actually espouses its purpose as being to help people maybe someone would like to volunteer to rewrite the official documentation. Maybe include the new installer as well.

I can understand why newbies look to Youtube or some random website that is actually written in a way they can understand. I do it my self sometimes to understand the process, and then check the Debian page to make sure I haven't missed anything.

Or is it a case of
Bulkley wrote: 2021-08-07 15:48 Debian really isn't for everyone.
..and we're going to keep it that way?

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Re: Sadly amusing

#8 Post by Bulkley »

NFT5 wrote: 2021-08-07 22:23 ..and we're going to keep it that way?
I hope so.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#9 Post by CwF »

I don't think it's like all that, a cool guy club like arch. In my view it is like many markets with a complex makeup people ignore. Most buy on brand, even when it's just a different sticker. Debian is a foundational and horizontal tier closer to an OEM that deals more B2B than DIY. The zillions of distros based on it are the VAR's. Yes, they add something. Don't know what all that is, never mind, you need your own sticker for Debian.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#10 Post by ticojohn »

stevepusser wrote: 2021-08-07 21:58
Bored now! Let's fight!

:P
Yeah, how boring. But I'll pass on the fight. Rather tip a beer. :D
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Re: Sadly amusing

#11 Post by Bulkley »

@ CwF, we're on the same page but you express it better. Distros are complex. If I install a finished distro I spend a lot of time and effort removing stuff I don't want. Debian allows me to build from the bare basics and add what I need. Some users want the finished product; others prefer DIY.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#12 Post by CwF »

Bulkley wrote: 2021-08-08 00:26 If I install a finished distro I spend a lot of time and effort removing stuff I don't want.
I think that is part of the path for many. After you figure out how to take apart a 'buntu, you're almost ready for Debian. For the DIY inclined, they'll get here eventually.

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Re: Sadly amusing

#13 Post by donald »

It's the state of things, as @ticojohn mentioned it is a desire for instant gratification and results which are prevalent in society right now. People use google as a guide for the complex installation of software and then continue to use google to research each error as it occurs whilst ignoring the actual source material which documents the actual planned procedure and occasionally the errors that one might encounter.

Also it's easier to troll knowledge based forums for answers than it is to read the manual or documentation, I.E. They will post here or at Stack or Reddit that $Foo doesn't work with $Bar and they'll get 10 different people posting the solution or manner to resolve it, the end user implements the advice but has no idea WHY it works or how to fix it later after a software upgrade. It's a vicious cycle avoidable by simply reading the documentation. PHP errors fill the internet with people fixing or inserting something into the code to just make it work, it works, then breaks, ALWAYS.

NFT5 wrote: 2021-08-07 22:23 Now that we have a forum that actually espouses its purpose as being to help people maybe someone would like to volunteer to rewrite the official documentation. Maybe include the new installer as well.
It's technical documentation, users tend to use that style of documentation as installation documentation while failing to realize that they are entirely different resource materials.
Typo perfectionish.


"The advice given above is all good, and just because a new message has appeared it does not mean that a problem has arisen, just that a new gremlin hiding in the hardware has been exposed." - FreewheelinFrank

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