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How much do you trust Debian?
- Diesel330
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How much do you trust Debian?
If you do trust it or not I want you to reason why, I trusted a passage from the social contract that reads: ''We will be guided by the needs of our users'' ''We will place their interests first in our priorities'' But do I have the same needs and interests as the rest of the users? Which are your needs and interests?
- argentwolf
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Wasn't your question already satisfied below or have you switched positions?
viewtopic.php?p=745725#p745725
Do you have a technical question?
viewtopic.php?p=745725#p745725
Do you have a technical question?
Vanguard Debian, because nothing's worse than doing nothing, whimsically!
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
There are different levels and "kinds" of trust.
1. Stability - Debian offers nearly perfect stability, unlike Microshit Winblows and Google Android.
2. Safety - 1 new virus for Linux per year, 100 new viruses per month for Android, 250 new viruses for Winblows every single day.
3. Software quality - Debian offers at best average software quality -> the QA does not take into account end users experience, and there are hundreds of bugs and broken (not working) packages. This is not strictly related to Debian - the Debian maintainers are in most cases just packaging the software, so the quality depends on upstream developers ---> But: Only Apple is better in this field ---> Android is littered with shitty applications, and in Winblows You won't find a single application without at least 1 serious, annoying bug.
4. Hardware support: Debian supports very old machines, while Microshit is intentionally dropping support for old HW just to force the users to buy a new PC (they probably have some NDA's with PC manufacturers OR they want to force their customers to use TPM)
Overall score:
Better trust Debian - every company in our "wonderful" world just wants to maximize their profits, and they completely don't care about You (*)
Regards.
(*) I'd like to use stronger words, but I don't want to cheat the forum's spell checker
1. Stability - Debian offers nearly perfect stability, unlike Microshit Winblows and Google Android.
2. Safety - 1 new virus for Linux per year, 100 new viruses per month for Android, 250 new viruses for Winblows every single day.
3. Software quality - Debian offers at best average software quality -> the QA does not take into account end users experience, and there are hundreds of bugs and broken (not working) packages. This is not strictly related to Debian - the Debian maintainers are in most cases just packaging the software, so the quality depends on upstream developers ---> But: Only Apple is better in this field ---> Android is littered with shitty applications, and in Winblows You won't find a single application without at least 1 serious, annoying bug.
4. Hardware support: Debian supports very old machines, while Microshit is intentionally dropping support for old HW just to force the users to buy a new PC (they probably have some NDA's with PC manufacturers OR they want to force their customers to use TPM)
Overall score:
Better trust Debian - every company in our "wonderful" world just wants to maximize their profits, and they completely don't care about You (*)
Regards.
(*) I'd like to use stronger words, but I don't want to cheat the forum's spell checker
Bill Gates: "(...) In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and I fished out listings of their operating system."
The_full_story and Nothing_have_changed
The_full_story and Nothing_have_changed
- cds60601
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Lets put it this way, of the many OS's that are out there, I trust only 2.
1. Debian - first and foremost.
2. Arch (Without the use of the AUR)
In all the years I used Debian, I have never regretted anything about it.
If I require newish software, I have options of using Testing or Sid at the expense of my own expertise (or lack of).
As to Arch - I never had a reason to tap off the AUR. I have no reason to install apps that are (for the most part) based on an honor system that are not reviewed by the core team.
I refuse to drag the "big 2" into this simply because we have seen threads like this before and its just more vomiting of the same old same old.
As to your original post about buying a laptop to run Debian - you are looking at it incorrectly. You purchase a laptop to to fit the needs of what you intend to use it for.
For example, if you intend on using it strictly for gaming, then you find an OS that is designed with gaming in mind then look at the hardware requirement of the OS you are thinking of installing.
1. Debian - first and foremost.
2. Arch (Without the use of the AUR)
In all the years I used Debian, I have never regretted anything about it.
If I require newish software, I have options of using Testing or Sid at the expense of my own expertise (or lack of).
As to Arch - I never had a reason to tap off the AUR. I have no reason to install apps that are (for the most part) based on an honor system that are not reviewed by the core team.
I refuse to drag the "big 2" into this simply because we have seen threads like this before and its just more vomiting of the same old same old.
As to your original post about buying a laptop to run Debian - you are looking at it incorrectly. You purchase a laptop to to fit the needs of what you intend to use it for.
For example, if you intend on using it strictly for gaming, then you find an OS that is designed with gaming in mind then look at the hardware requirement of the OS you are thinking of installing.
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Do I trust Debian and why? Yes, I trust software from the main repository because it has been tried & tested and it gets security updates from the security repository & that's good enough for me. I use stable, of course, being of a somewhat laid-back disposition.
But I don't trust non-free software so I don't install it even if it has been packaged for Debian for the non-free repository. The same applies to non-free stuff from FlatPak and snap although I have nothing from either. I'd be quite happy if non-free were removed from Debian altogether because it goes against Debian's purpose to produce a 100% free operating system.
Debian provides software for users with many different needs & interests, like, for example programming, science, chess and music, etc. Users need their own subset of programs. See Debian Pure Blends. For example, I'm particularly interested in FreedomBox. I'm also interested in Wordpress, mail and server software in general.Diesel330 wrote:I trusted a passage from the social contract that reads: ''We will be guided by the needs of our users'' ''We will place their interests first in our priorities'' But do I have the same needs and interests as the rest of the users? Which are your needs and interests?
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- argentwolf
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Do I trust Debian? NO!Diesel330 wrote: ↑2022-01-17 21:14 If you do trust it or not I want you to reason why, I trusted a passage from the social contract that reads: ''We will be guided by the needs of our users'' ''We will place their interests first in our priorities'' But do I have the same needs and interests as the rest of the users? Which are your needs and interests?
I innerstand the intended purpose of DARPA's technocracy, plus the entirety of Giant Tech has blatantly proven to NOT adhere to their contracts (e.g., 4A) thus confirming customers "needs and interests" irrelevant to their scope.
Trust No One (TNO)! Social Engineering Works! The Layer Provides [Dude PUN, sorry]!
Some may want to change their elevator pitch on safety...most are long in the tooth. Oh, and please, ransomware doesn't "attack"!
"A Not-So-Common Cold: Malware Statistics in 2021"
https://dataprot.net/statistics/malware-statistics/
Vanguard Debian, because nothing's worse than doing nothing, whimsically!
32-bit | 2 Duo T5270 @ 1.40GHz x 2 CPU | 3.9GiB RAM | NV86 117MiB GPU | 465.76GiB SSD
64-bit | i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz x 8 CPU | 15.6GiB RAM | NVD9 1.9GiB GPU | 931.51GiB SSD
32-bit | 2 Duo T5270 @ 1.40GHz x 2 CPU | 3.9GiB RAM | NV86 117MiB GPU | 465.76GiB SSD
64-bit | i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz x 8 CPU | 15.6GiB RAM | NVD9 1.9GiB GPU | 931.51GiB SSD
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Fully
Unless of course my limited Knowledge, Experience, Common Sense and Critical thinking would deteriorate ( not imaginary given my age ) I have no desire to look back or searching for alternatives since I became an ordinary Debian user .
Unless of course my limited Knowledge, Experience, Common Sense and Critical thinking would deteriorate ( not imaginary given my age ) I have no desire to look back or searching for alternatives since I became an ordinary Debian user .
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- canci
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Time and time again, whenever there was something weird going on with packages, the Debian community was usually the first one to react and do something about it. Examples:
* Firefox suddenly changing to a weird license where the logo and name had a trademark that wasn't really free software anymore, so Debian just repackaged the free software bits with a new name
* Preventing that one Chromium version to suddenly start the microphone without the user's consent (although I'd love for anything Google to be gone from existence and Debian repos to be honest)
* Changing that one default behaviour of systemd where, if you used a specific feature of logind, it would use Google DNS by default
These are just the first examples of the top off my head where Debian devs/community proved to me that they're reliably trying their best to make the product as ethical as possible in the way I understand ethical software: free as in freedom, no spyware, no bending to corporation foo or bar.
Compare that to Cannonical who constantly change things about their OS without listening to input from users and who e.g. had Amazon tracking within their desktop for the longest time and trying to rationalise it every step of the way.
* Firefox suddenly changing to a weird license where the logo and name had a trademark that wasn't really free software anymore, so Debian just repackaged the free software bits with a new name
* Preventing that one Chromium version to suddenly start the microphone without the user's consent (although I'd love for anything Google to be gone from existence and Debian repos to be honest)
* Changing that one default behaviour of systemd where, if you used a specific feature of logind, it would use Google DNS by default
These are just the first examples of the top off my head where Debian devs/community proved to me that they're reliably trying their best to make the product as ethical as possible in the way I understand ethical software: free as in freedom, no spyware, no bending to corporation foo or bar.
Compare that to Cannonical who constantly change things about their OS without listening to input from users and who e.g. had Amazon tracking within their desktop for the longest time and trying to rationalise it every step of the way.
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- argentwolf
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
The Wikileaks and Snowden's divulge both plainly showed, what you're told about the discovery of security/privacy vulnerabilities, on any platform, are not the truth in the matter, and yet the collective blindly accepts 'their' explanation. Technologist have learned nothing over the last 30 years about how compromised our digital realm seriously is and why none within should be trusted. Amazing!
"Five Eyes, Nine Eyes, and 14 Eyes (In-Depth Explanation)"
https://restoreprivacy.com/5-eyes-9-eyes-14-eyes/
Edit:
Problematic clearly defined...
"iOS 15 will give doctors a window into Apple Health app data"
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/20/2267 ... pts-cerner
"Five Eyes, Nine Eyes, and 14 Eyes (In-Depth Explanation)"
https://restoreprivacy.com/5-eyes-9-eyes-14-eyes/
Edit:
Problematic clearly defined...
"iOS 15 will give doctors a window into Apple Health app data"
https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/20/2267 ... pts-cerner
Last edited by argentwolf on 2022-01-18 15:00, edited 1 time in total.
Vanguard Debian, because nothing's worse than doing nothing, whimsically!
32-bit | 2 Duo T5270 @ 1.40GHz x 2 CPU | 3.9GiB RAM | NV86 117MiB GPU | 465.76GiB SSD
64-bit | i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz x 8 CPU | 15.6GiB RAM | NVD9 1.9GiB GPU | 931.51GiB SSD
32-bit | 2 Duo T5270 @ 1.40GHz x 2 CPU | 3.9GiB RAM | NV86 117MiB GPU | 465.76GiB SSD
64-bit | i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz x 8 CPU | 15.6GiB RAM | NVD9 1.9GiB GPU | 931.51GiB SSD
- Diesel330
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
What I look for is good intention, if my computers are compromised by a mistake I can live with that, I don't want the products that I use to try to fool me with foggy terms and half truths, this is how I ended up in Debian, Thank you all for the replies.
Re: How much do you trust Debian?
As stated here debian.org/securitydebian.org/security
FAQ
So if anyone notices any security problems, please bring them to their attention without delay, whereupon they will cease to be hidden thus dispelling fear, uncertainty, and doubt, otherwise known as FUD.Debian takes security very seriously. We handle all security problems brought to our attention and ensure that they are corrected within a reasonable timeframe.
FAQ
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- argentwolf
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
All platforms state they absolutely "take security very seriously" and if you don't believe me, ask them! And yet, security within our binary realm, across the board is a disaster, INTENTIONALLY!
"Good intentions", really? Technology doesn't purpose on the emotional level, you do! "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", I effort NOT to go down that road ignorantly if I must.
We've been constantly told the facts about our digital world, yet we move to "feel" it's okay, and ignore the truth. Amazing!
Convenience is literally the thief of safety and security, so how's that tracker you carry working for ya? D'oh!
Platitudes, platitudes...blah, blah, blah. The people farm has been so easily played, so thoroughly managed, its what brought you here!
Edit:
Sadly, the hypnosis arrives from the wrongheaded and programed belief that the device and its OS and/or Apps used to connect you with the interweb is the culprit of a lack of online security, privacy, and safety.
Do you honestly believe all your medical, banking, and personal records were acquired from your PC? Heck, most users don't even have such on their machines. And if the escape did NOT happen from your computing appliances, then whos?
You now begin to get a glimpse, this whole corrupt system was constructed to surveil, collect, and distribute without your consent, the detraction over the last several years was look at "China's social credit score". BAD!
They manage the people farm across the plane[t] just fine thanks. D'oh!
Don't forget, DARPA created all the technology and the largest social apps for their convenience not yours. drops mic
"Good intentions", really? Technology doesn't purpose on the emotional level, you do! "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", I effort NOT to go down that road ignorantly if I must.
We've been constantly told the facts about our digital world, yet we move to "feel" it's okay, and ignore the truth. Amazing!
Convenience is literally the thief of safety and security, so how's that tracker you carry working for ya? D'oh!
Platitudes, platitudes...blah, blah, blah. The people farm has been so easily played, so thoroughly managed, its what brought you here!
Edit:
Sadly, the hypnosis arrives from the wrongheaded and programed belief that the device and its OS and/or Apps used to connect you with the interweb is the culprit of a lack of online security, privacy, and safety.
Do you honestly believe all your medical, banking, and personal records were acquired from your PC? Heck, most users don't even have such on their machines. And if the escape did NOT happen from your computing appliances, then whos?
You now begin to get a glimpse, this whole corrupt system was constructed to surveil, collect, and distribute without your consent, the detraction over the last several years was look at "China's social credit score". BAD!
They manage the people farm across the plane[t] just fine thanks. D'oh!
Don't forget, DARPA created all the technology and the largest social apps for their convenience not yours. drops mic
Vanguard Debian, because nothing's worse than doing nothing, whimsically!
32-bit | 2 Duo T5270 @ 1.40GHz x 2 CPU | 3.9GiB RAM | NV86 117MiB GPU | 465.76GiB SSD
64-bit | i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz x 8 CPU | 15.6GiB RAM | NVD9 1.9GiB GPU | 931.51GiB SSD
32-bit | 2 Duo T5270 @ 1.40GHz x 2 CPU | 3.9GiB RAM | NV86 117MiB GPU | 465.76GiB SSD
64-bit | i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz x 8 CPU | 15.6GiB RAM | NVD9 1.9GiB GPU | 931.51GiB SSD
Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Yes, but there is a fundamental difference between free (not "freeware") open source software and proprietary, binary-only software. There's no comparison: Debian can examine and audit the source code for free software but not binary-only, non-free programs. If, on the other hand, a proprietary platform is used, one has to trust the vendor by accepting the EULA and install some antivirus program. If one is really concerned about security in Debian, then there are tools available to monitor activity like, for example, wireshark. But using stable, avoiding non-free stuff and configuring your browser's security settings as required are pretty good basic precautions.argentwolf wrote: ↑2022-01-18 13:22 All platforms state they absolutely "take security very seriously" and if you don't believe me, ask them! And yet, security within our binary realm, across the board is a disaster, INTENTIONALLY!
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Debian is a non-commercial organization, thus the developers don't have their financial interests in developing the project. This also implies that current financial and economic crisis doesn't affect the Debian project directly and Debian won't be stopped because of bankruptcy or negative income since it is developed for years now without financial profit and therefore will be. Thus Debian in my point of view is "stable" not only in technical sense (as stable release), but also so to say sociologically. Financial storms cannot sink the Debian project (as it happened with Centos), and new versions will be being released, at least in mid-term perspective. From Debian devs, I expect no unpleasant and disappointing surprises like the one with Centos 8 support lifecycle.
As of minor issues, like certain packages are being thrown out of the stable release etc., personally, I'm not content with all of the decisions made by developers, but I can live with that. All and all, no distro is ideal.
As of minor issues, like certain packages are being thrown out of the stable release etc., personally, I'm not content with all of the decisions made by developers, but I can live with that. All and all, no distro is ideal.
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
Yeah, of course, Debian is funded by certain persons, certain or not. But donations are not investments. An investor is interested in his money returned to him with profit, otherwise the production cycle won't be closed. Thus projects powered by investments cannot be loss-making. These are either profitable, or non-existent. Donations, on the other hand, do not imply the return of the money or goods donated. Donation is a form of sacrifice (in Russian, "to donate" and "to sacrifice" is one word). But when a person sacrifices anything, they don't do this for nothing, they expect something in return. What do modern donors expect from their donations? Of course, they expect to obtain proper product of high quality.anticapitalista wrote: ↑2022-01-18 21:38 Have a look at who sponsors Debian
https://debconf21.debconf.org/
Whilst it is possible to make a poor-quality product profitable depending on the market circumstances (like in monopolies and oligopolies), it is almost impossible to run a long-term project powered by donations and produce some sort of a crap. I find crowdfunding a very progressive social practice, it is actually a sort of direct democracy, where projects are supported and developed when they are voted for by people's pockets.
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
I am somewhere in the starting phase of trusting debian right now.
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
I don't want to fish anyone with this , I leave it to the administrators of the respective " specialized forums " * , but what strikes me is that these forums in general have become far too tolerant for the new generation " useful idiots " who gratefully use their platform to brainwash the masses in the service of whom they are on the payroll .
Cannonical is a prime example of this .
At least that is how I see it .
(*) I'm not talking about Debian User Forums ... though ?
Cannonical is a prime example of this .
At least that is how I see it .
(*) I'm not talking about Debian User Forums ... though ?
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Re: How much do you trust Debian?
How the devil is fending for himself in the holy water barrel :
" useful idiots " or should I say the " useful demagogues " ?
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic. ... 9#p2127799
" That said, I am concerned that Snap actually seems to be making significant inroads. “
We'll see. Not too happy with that myself, but if it ultimately would become the new reality, then we'll have to deal with it. That's life: if it can't be done the way it should, it should be done the way it can. ...
" Is LinuxMint Debian Edition the way forward? [ And why is it relatively "hidden" from view in downloads (have to pay close attention to the menu as it is not referenced on the main download page). Is this simply a discouragement for "newbies" (a potentially valid reason) ? “
LMDE is "Plan B" in case Ubuntu would ever cease to exist (God forbid)....
" useful idiots " or should I say the " useful demagogues " ?
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic. ... 9#p2127799
" That said, I am concerned that Snap actually seems to be making significant inroads. “
We'll see. Not too happy with that myself, but if it ultimately would become the new reality, then we'll have to deal with it. That's life: if it can't be done the way it should, it should be done the way it can. ...
" Is LinuxMint Debian Edition the way forward? [ And why is it relatively "hidden" from view in downloads (have to pay close attention to the menu as it is not referenced on the main download page). Is this simply a discouragement for "newbies" (a potentially valid reason) ? “
LMDE is "Plan B" in case Ubuntu would ever cease to exist (God forbid)....
ASUS GL753VD / X550LD / K54HR / X751LAB ( x2 )
Bookworm12.5_Cinnamon / Calamares Single Boot installations
Firefox ESR / DuckDuckGo / Thunderbird / LibreOffice / GIMP / eID Software
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/
Bookworm12.5_Cinnamon / Calamares Single Boot installations
Firefox ESR / DuckDuckGo / Thunderbird / LibreOffice / GIMP / eID Software
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/cu ... so-hybrid/