Thinking of installing debian but want to use sysvinit

[Bulkley]

Antix has a net install that uses Runit as PID1. You could install that and build from there.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

so i do a basic net install with no X, boot to a bash prompt, remove systemd, install sysvinit and elogind

You cannot remove systemd in Debian. It is perfectly possible to use sysvinit, runit or openrc-init as PID1 but the systemd package itself cannot be removed.

For normal people this would not be a problem because systemd would not actually be running but i recommended a musl libc based distribution because your tone suggests that you are one of those weird religious types who are existentially offended by the presence of an unused piece of software that you don't like.

[pcalvert]

it's a house of cards for sure. new kernel r8168-dkms bluetooth... eventually you hit something that wants systemd. i fiddled with it until i got liquorix installed but then the stupid r8169 hits. its a lot to sort out.

That's why I suggested that, if you run out of patience, you convert the system to Devuan. It's not difficult.

Phil

[lizzias]

so i do a basic net install with no X, boot to a bash prompt, remove systemd, install sysvinit and elogind

You cannot remove systemd in Debian. It is perfectly possible to use sysvinit, runit or openrc-init as PID1 but the systemd package itself cannot be removed.

For normal people this would not be a problem because systemd would not actually be running but i recommended a musl libc based distribution because your tone suggests that you are one of those weird religious types who are existentially offended by the presence of an unused piece of software that you don't like.

That’s funny really because it took 250 versions of systemd to get stable. Whereas the sysvinit that Debian used to use was never broken. If as much energy had been put into fixing that which was never broken in the first place just to satisfy the growing cult of systemd which by the way clearly impedes freedom of choice and is antifoss and antignu, I wonder at the marvelous state sysvinit would be in, not being treated like some back door hookup that’s for sure. But yah call me the religious nut for bucking the system that requires everyone to think the same no matter what. ::eye roll::

At any rate it’s clear. Nothing is developed enough to do the gaming on Linux I wish to do and run my devices. I’ve used artix and gentoo and obarun and for one reason or another they all fail to perform. Or it could be said that I fail to perform because the complexity of maintaining the system when it breaks is more tedious then my skill set can bear. And I guess that’s the real issue. Im just a crazy lady on ssdi with ptsd who can’t cope when all is said and done. Thanks all for you help. Much appreciated. Have a wonderful day.

[arochester]

Debian, along with the majority of other Linux distros, has been using systemd for nearly seven years now.

Maybe, if you had told us about the actual problems you had, instead of the problems you imagined you might have, you might have got better help,

Gaming on Linux. That's new to us and a little late.

As H_o_a_S might have said: https://xyproblem.info/

[lizzias]

Debian, along with the majority of other Linux distros, has been using systemd for nearly seven years now.

Maybe, if you had told us about the actual problems you had, instead of the problems you imagined you might have, you might have got better help,

Gaming on Linux. That's new to us and a little late.

As H_o_a_S might have said: https://xyproblem.info/

This is why people don’t like using Linux. In a nut shell. You want to control people’s thinking rather than just be helpful. Systemd is just another symptom of it.

[Deb-fan]

Waste of time + energy but this is clearly just neurotic trolling.

[sunrat]

This is why people don’t like using Linux.

Who is this "people" you speak of? I like using Linux so I must not be people.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

The weird thing is that the OP has now installed Devuan instead and claims that the gaming stuff is working for that

EDIT: and I didn't call them a "religious nut". Even though they clearly are

[sgage]

To be fair let's add Devuan.

yah i saw devuan but it uses refracta installer which is fine for most people but last time i used it (refracta) it was limited in what directories one could create for your install to whatever ones the devs used for the vanilla install and no curtomizing was available if i wanted to say mount a partition as /home/[user]/Steam at install time it wouldnt jive so well. Ya sure i can edit fstab after first boot up and reboot again but it's just nice to be able to create all that at install time and not have to fuss with manually editing files. I have used obarun and artix but the maintinence is ridiculous when something goes wonky. When i turn my pc on to play a game on steam i'd rather not be required to spend an hour or days troubleshooting why my sixaxis controller isn't working this time. Or why on my arch install i have the correct button mapping for my ipega-9021 controller but not on the arch derivative openrc, runit, or s6 configed system. I figured if anyone has a nonsystemd system running with top notch performance, it would have to be debian and if they cant do it then it's just time to quit.

The live installer uses Refracta. The plain installers use Debian installer.

[vmclark]

Why?

Because i said so that's why.

This is why we should have ignored the OP.

[Head_on_a_Stick]

^ The OP appears to have self-identified as female.

[VA1DER]

Why?

Because i said so that's why.

This is why we should have ignored the OP.

Then why didn't you? You should have ignored the OP and the thread in its entirety.

The OP was actually a lot politer there than I would have been. It is endlessly tiresome to ask a question to have psuedo-helpful pundits chime in with the "Oh My God, why would you want to do that?" comments. Why the OP wanted to find out about the current feasibility of ripping out systemd is one hundred percent irrelevant to the question. The OP was completely in his right to (mildly) step on that question and the asker in the way it was done. It stopped the philosophical discussion in its tracks for the first 2/3rds of the thread and made it a useful discussion.

EDIT: and I didn't call them a "religious nut". Even though they clearly are

Who is the religious zealot... the one who asks a technical question hoping for a technical answer? Or maybe is it the one who teases out the reason for it and then points and says ah, religious zealot.

Let's keep this on track. There are people interested in Debian-esqe installations that are as systemd free as possible. Why this is so is irrelevant.

[Deb-fan]

dammit gotta do it ...

Why is a technical question, the reason a person is trying to do XYZ (what they're actually attempting to do) can drastically change what more informed techies could/would suggest. Why is more than a perfectly reasonable question in my view. Seen the thread and also started to ask that very same thing myself (why do you want/need this, what are you trying to accomplish??) and recognized the futility so didn't bother. The OP is clearly an all over the place whacknut. Though sheesh thread still attracted thousands of views, so whatever I guess.

Not bothering to throw 2 cents in on this in a technical context as it's feeding of trolls and pointless. Not like there's any shortage of information on init's available. If the OP is too lazy and/or stupid to bother with any of that, really no point anyway. If it's just an I read a snippet (about a bunch of ignorant folks views on the evils of systemd) and for reasons I don't understand, don't like what upstream (the people who do the lionsshare of actual maintenance and development in terms of the gnu/Linux platform) are doing.

So all you geeks quickly and easily tell me how to do something that's both inherently stupid (technically speaking) and also clearly far outside my abilities, while you enjoy my mindless, all over the place nonsense ramblings about topics they have little or no understanding of either, open source is and/or used to be like this, should be like that, that's why blah, unix philosophy ... blahblahblah ... Errrr, NO, I don't think so, shrugs.

Sub-gotta do it ...

Dear OP, please go farf yourself .... why ? Because I said so, that's why.

Also added this cause it's funny, that's why.

Find out about these miraculous things = search engines ... Search for stuff, learn about it and then when/if a person ever has any thoughts or insights worth sharing by all means, do so. Crap it's 2021 and absolutely ridiculous how few have apparently heard about these new internet + search engine thingies.

Lol ... mostly just pointlessly venting here, arghh n shrugs.

[steve_v]

Nothing is developed enough to do the gaming on Linux I wish to do and run my devices.

If you had explained exactly what it is you're trying to run on your machine right at the start, somebody might have been more helpful. v0v.

FWIW, I run a couple of Devuan installs, and it's pretty much exactly what it says on the tin: Debian without systemd, and without the ongoing pain of keeping systemd from being pulled back in. Despite attempts to make it look like a fully independent distro, it's still really not much more than a package overlay to fix all the gratuitous hard-deps on systemd. And that's exactly what's needed.
As already mentioned, refractainstaller is optional and only used in the live images. If you want a traditional Debian installer, use the netinstall ISO.

As for Gentoo, I can personally attest that "gaming on Linux" there is just fine. I run Gentoo on my shiny new comet-lake desktop, it's blazing-fast, rock-solid, hassle-free, and games just swimmingly. You just have to wait a little longer for stuff to install on Gentoo is all.
You obviously don't get the stable packages bit that you do on Debian/Devuan, but IME you don't get the Arch-effect either (when I ran Arch, the catchphrase was "Arch likes to live on the bleeding edge, and you get to do the bleeding). Unless you switch to "unstable" keywords, there's very, very little breakage.
And of course you get real init-freedom too - sysv, systemd, openrc, epoch, runit, and s6 all work just fine.

To return to your initial question: It's still possible, but you really, really don't want to go there. You'll spend more time digging out systemd deps and rebuilding packages than using the machine, and at that point you're better off running Devuan.

The OP was actually a lot politer there than I would have been. It is endlessly tiresome to ask a question to have psuedo-helpful pundits chime in with the "Oh My God, why would you want to do that?" comments.

Indeed.

EDIT: and I didn't call them a "religious nut". Even though they clearly are

"I didn't, but I meant to, so now I will."
The real religious nuts around here are those who roll out the inquisition at the slightest mention of non-systemd installs rather than offering useful, technical advice...

clearly an all over the place whacknut.

too lazy and/or stupid

ignorant folks views on the evils of systemd

nonsense ramblings

little or no understanding

please go farf yourself

And the inquisition has arrived.