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Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

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Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#1 Post by wonder »

Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

And I put this question, doubt or whatever in newbies, since, although I have been in derivatives for a few years, I have been in debian for a few weeks and here I have discovered that, I only know that I know nothing... :)

As I comment, I come from a derivative, I am giving it exactly the same use as the derivative, it is a desktop PC with 16 GB ram, I am noticing that it has a higher ram consumption, today I have reached 100%.
I am one of those who never shuts down the PC, I always sleep it (not hibernate), I installed Debian 11.5 Stable (non-free) and followed the wonderful thread on how to install Debian (fantastic thread to have everything installed!)

As I mentioned, I use it the same way, I'm one of those who open several browsers and many, many open tabs, I don't turn off the PC, I put it to sleep.
Today I saw it get to 80% usage, then 90% and when it got to 100% ram usage it killed a process (one of the browsers), ok.
I have it configured so that after 20 minutes of inactivity, the pc is suspended, it has been suspended, and when I pressed a key on the keyboard to resume, it resumed but... it killed all the processes and I could no longer turn off or restart from the menu, I had to, from konsole, shutdown -r now, so it restarted.

In the file /var/log/kern.log, at the mentioned time, I find these lines, but I don't see anything strange (and even if there was, I wouldn't know how to interpret it):

Code: Select all

Sep 27 14:09:43 PC-Ariadna kernel: [168613.264085] PM: suspend entry (deep)
Sep 27 14:09:43 PC-Ariadna kernel: [168613.269376] Filesystems sync: 0.005 seconds
Sep 27 14:19:25 PC-Ariadna kernel: [168613.638816] Freezing user space processes ... (elapsed 0.002 seconds) done.
Sep 27 14:19:25 PC-Ariadna kernel: [168613.641103] OOM killer disabled.
Sep 27 14:19:25 PC-Ariadna kernel: [168613.641104] Freezing remaining freezable tasks ... (elapsed 6.624 seconds) done.
There are more lines, many more, but those are when he falls asleep and when I wake him up.

I must indicate:
In the installation, I indicated to use the entire disk and partition automatically, I have an nvme hard drive and it created a partition with 1 gb of ram.
I have hibernation enabled (in my previous derivatives I didn't have it and I didn't add swap, I partitioned myself).

And as a result of this I have several doubts...
I let swap?
I think suspend is better than hibernate.
And the high ram usage...I still can't confirm it 100% that it uses more, but it never reached 80-90 and 100% before...

I know it's a bit abstract post, but today I felt like a 200% newbie...

Thank you and greetings.

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#2 Post by Hallvor »

16 GB should be more than enough. This computer only has half of that, and OOM killer has never done anything.

So you have 16 GB RAM and 1 GB swap?

1. If you never hibernate, you should at minimum have 4 GB of swap.
2. Fire up something to track what's eating your RAM. KsysGuard, top or similar. You stated that there was 80% RAM usage. What was the main culprit?
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#3 Post by wonder »

That's right, my computer has 16 GB of RAM and indeed, only 1 GB of Swap.
It is the first time that I have done, in the installation, automatic partitioning, giving it all the disk I have (an nvme) and the installation gave me 1 gb of swap.
After yesterday's mishap, I've read a lot about the swap and it's not clear to me if it's good to have it, it's not good, how much... depending on where you read, there are some suggestions or others. I thought that here would be the best place where I could have the answer after seeing your posts.

I never hibernate, I always suspend, but I'm thinking of hibernating, although they say that hibernation "punishes" the hard drive...

I cannot indicate exactly what raised the consumption so much yesterday, since yesterday I have been monitoring with Ksysguard, but yesterday I was late when I wanted to see.
Right now I am at 46% use, I have 2 different browsers with about 20/30 tabs between them (they are programmed to go to sleep mode after x minutes of inactivity).

I understand that with 16 gb of ram, minimum 4 gb of swap, there is no problem with the hard disk being nvme, if I have to put more swap, I put it.

Thanks, as always!

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#4 Post by Hallvor »

There are so many suggestions online, but I think these recommendations are sane on 16GB RAM: 4 GB swap for a system that doesn't hibernate, and 1,5x the amount of RAM if hibernating.

https://access.redhat.com/documentation ... swap-space

These recommendations are probably on the more generous side, so you shouldn't experience any trouble with memory.

One of my laptops has 16 GB of RAM, and also 16 GB swap. It hardly ever uses any swap, and it hibernates fine.

Hibernation means that a lot of data will be written, and you'll need more swap. That means less available disk space, a little shorter lifespan of the disk itself and slower start (compared to suspend). If you are using LUKS encryption, having it turned completely off and encrypted (i.e. hibernated) is safer than using suspend (where the system is running decrypted).

If you are just running browsers, try disabling your browser addons and open the same amount of browsers and tabs again. It could be a memory leak in a browser addon.
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#5 Post by wonder »

Indeed, that happened to me, I read and read in every site I read, the recommendations were different, even not having a swal on solid or nvme hard drives...

After what happened yesterday, I thought that the best place would be here, as I said at the time, years in derivatives, but what I have read here I have not read anywhere else.

I will follow your advice, I will put 4 gb of ram. Although I plan to expand (I use kdenlive and audacity a lot) and since I never turn off my pc... maybe I'll increase ram, I don't know.

I never hibernate, from what you've said, take the life out of the disk, in this case, as it's an nvme... you may never notice that loss of life but....
I also don't use LUKS encryption, and have never hibernated per the above.

About what you mention about a browser addon, it could be, I have seen that they are configured to continue running in the background when closing any browser.
Today at the moment the consumption does not rise from 45-50%, it seems stable, I will continue checking because yesterday, before it happened, I did see something in Ksysguard that consumed a lot, but after what happened, that "crash", I could no longer see nothing anomalous in Ksysguard.

Grateful!

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#6 Post by Hallvor »

Yes, having plenty of RAM when doing video editing is always a good idea. The last thing you want is heavy swapping when doing that, so if that happens and you can add more RAM, I'd do it.

OOM killer will kill processes to free RAM when it's running out. If it didn't, the entire system would crash as there is nothing else to do. That's why the offender suddenly disappears and everything looks normal.
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#7 Post by wonder »

That's right, I have 16 GB RAM, it's not that I dedicate myself to video editing every day, but it's a hobby that I have, and I had thought about expanding ram. Sometimes days can go by that I don't edit any, and other days I might edit several and if I could, two instances of kdenlive open at the same time, xD.

The issue of the swap, I know that the speed is good, because I have the swap on the nvme hard drive, which by the way, I have already extended the swap to 4GB according to your recommendation.
Although I was thinking... I also have a 128GB solid-state drive (SSD), I use that for video rendering, I could partition that SSD hard drive and put the swap on it and that way the main one would not "suffer", the nvme, which is the one I don't want to "suffer", shorten its life... etc... although later you read other things and stop to think, it is possible that, with the life they have, you will change it before it starts to lose performance...

About OOM Killer, yesterday it did, before I had the problem, it killed a browser that was consuming but... after a few hours, that's when I started to see that it reached 80, then 90 and I got to see it in the 99% ram usage, then that's when i suspended, and on resume everything was killed and i couldn't even reboot, had to do it by konsole.

Since then I'm monitoring, I don't go over 30-40-45% of RAM usage... I don't know, maybe an update that I didn't restart later or... if it doesn't happen anymore, I won't give it importance.

Now this, since I'm on Debian, this site is my source of knowledge, configured the 4 gb of swap (I was about to put 6gb but I left it at 4 as you said), and I don't know whether to consider sleeping or hibernating. What I usually leave open are browsers with many tabs, thunderbird (which has many accounts configured) and... little else.

And the question of mounting the swap on the SSD or leaving it on the NVME.

As always, a pleasure!

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#8 Post by Hallvor »

It does indeed sound like a RAM upgrade would be nice. (Two instances of Kdenlive, several web browsers and lots of tabs.)

4 GB of RAM was Red Hat's minimum (non-hibernation) value, so increasing it to 6 GB would do no harm at all. But if 4 GB works, it works.

If you don't want to swap a lot, you can do moderate changes to swappiness and cache pressure: https://haydenjames.io/linux-performanc ... wap-space/

Writing a few hundred megabytes to swap on an SSD isn't a disaster. They are made to be used and will last a long time.

On a side note, I am glad I'm not the only one who likes to browse the web with a ridiculous number of tabs. ;)
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#9 Post by wonder »

I've been thinking about upgrading ram for a while, sometimes I've needed two instances of kdenlive (and then it can be 10 days that I don't use it) but there are always many browser tabs open...

Well, as always, following your advice, I'll upload the swap to 6GB, now I have 4, I don't mind uploading 2GB more, whatever it takes to improve the system, it's done.

At the time I looked at the issue of swappiness as you mention, but I don't mind using more or less swap, as you say, nowadays SSDs are made to be durable. My main hard drive is not SSD, it's NVME (I appreciate it more for that, hehe) but....I have an SSD connected and I think I'm going to put the swap on the SSD, mainly because...I'm proposing hibernate instead of suspend, or at least hybrid hibernation, I have read that hibernation is focused more on laptops and hybrid for desktop computers, and mine is desktop.
I'm still not sure what to do xD.

Yes, I'm one of those who open many tabs, you're not the only one, although I thought I was also the only one, xD, a friend of mine tells me; Why so much? And I tell you, it's my way of working, several instances of browsers, tabs in all of them....I organize myself well... :)

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#10 Post by Hallvor »

About swappiness and cache pressure: I think the defaults are fine, so, yes, you can leave them alone.

I have tested hibernation, and I don't really see the point. It is probably just as fast to shut the computer completely down and back on again. The only time I use it these days is if I am doing important work and absolutely must turn my computer off. If you only have lots of tabs open, the web browser can save them and bring them back when you restart your computer.

As stated before, hibernation is much safer than suspend if the system is encrypted and other people can get physical access to it.

Hybrid suspend: Tried that too, but meh... Probably useful if you keep a laptop suspended for a long time, then hibernate the system automatically before power runs out.

I just suspend or turn off the computer when necessary these days.
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#11 Post by wonder »

Yes, swappinnes, I think the same, the default values ​​should be good, I don't care if swap is used more or less, if it is, it's because it should be there and if it's used, it's because it should be used :)

Hehe, I have also tried hibernation, it happens to me like you, I don't see the point, my system is not encrypted and I only use it, it's a desktop pc so it starts the whole system again only once arrived, the system is as I left it (I extended swap to do this test). So like you :) I think I'm going to rule out hibernation, they say it uses less energy, but I don't think the energy consumed by the ram is noticeable in the electricity bill :)

Hybrid sleep, I read this weekend about it, they say it's a good option...etc...but I think that, perhaps for laptops, I have a scheduled wake-up (through WOL of my router) every day at 07: 40 am to make a backup of my home (the folders I don't want to lose), at first from what I read I understood that, after a suspended time, it goes into hibernation.
I use KDE (I think like you :) ) and there is an option, after x minutes of inactivity, I programmed it for hybrid suspension (through the menu I don't get that option) and in principle this weekend it has been suspended in hybrid mode But I haven't noticed anything afterwards.
I don't know if it was suspended in hybrid mode or not, the resume is the same as when I suspend.

So, I think I'm going to return the swap to 6GB (I have configured it so that the swap is used in an SSD that I have, it is not the one of the operating system that is an NVME) but for these tests, I increased the swap to RAM x 1.5.

And like you, yes, what I always leave open is, thunderbird, and browser or browsers with many open tabs, I will continue to use suspend.

As always, grateful for your attention, dedication, tests, explanations... :)

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#12 Post by Hallvor »

Yes, I use KDE. :) I have used KDE since 3.5, but left for XFCE when KDE 4 came along (I tried to like it, but couldn't). Came back when things had improved. (If you have a very old computer, you can still run a KDE 3.5-fork called Trinity. It runs extremely light). viewtopic.php?t=150536

You programmed hybrid suspend? I get it as an option in the menu. If it exceeds the number of minutes you have programmed, it "should" automatically hibernate from suspend mode. (Increasing swap to RAM x 1.5 was a good idea.)

I'm glad to help.
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#13 Post by wonder »

Ohh, great tutorial on how to install KDE 3.5 "Trinity" (I like the name Trinity, my daughter identifies with her, and she's a girl but it's her favorite movie :) )

I have a very old laptop, my desktop PC doesn't, it's quite new, but if I have a very old laptop, maybe I'll go ahead and name it Trinity, it's the one my daughter uses, if I tell her that, she'll be in for a surprise (she has to Trinity as wallpaper :) )

No, I didn't know how to program hybrid suspend. There is the option, in system preferences-energy management, that, when x minutes of inactivity pass, the equipment goes into a state, there I chose hybrid suspend and below there is a box to check "When active, hibernate after a period inactivity" but despite marking this option, it does not give me the option of how long it must take to go into hibernation.

In other words, I didn't see where to program for (If it exceeds the number of minutes you have programmed, it "should" automatically hibernate from suspend mode). I still dialed it, the pc spent the night sleeping, but in the morning I pressed keyboard and it woke up quickly, from sleep, not from hibernation.

Then I stopped to think if hybrid suspend or simply suspend is a good option, the maximum that can be suspended I calculate is about 8-10 hours (on weekends more but the average is that).
So I put it back to suspend after 20 minutes of inactivity and reduced the swap to 6GB.

In the event that I try the hybrid suspend again, I will have to increase the swap again, now I only increase or reduce the swap partition, is it necessary after modifying the size of swap to execute "update-initramfs -u"?

Infinitely grateful!

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#14 Post by Hallvor »

Thank you! (I have no idea what movie that is. The only Trinity-movie I van think of is with Bud Spencer and Terence Hill. I must be getting old.) ;) I guess the movie could give me a hint about her age, but if she is very young she may enjoy AMOR - a little "pet" living on the desktop. Potato Guy was also one of my sons' favorites, not to mention Tux Racer.

If you have a spare laptop, I am quite sure it will run fine. I don't run Trinity now, since my computers are new enough to run full KDE, but I had it installed on a very cheap laptop that was a decade old, and it ran just fine. With a heavy web browser on top, it may be a different story, but it does include its own native browser in Konqueror.

Since the topic is memory usage, Trinity is ridiculous. It has so many native applications with so much shared memory that it is extremely efficient.

Hybrid suspend: I didn't know how to alter the settings either, but I am sure it is as easy as editing a text file. Since it tried to solve a non-issue for me, I didn't invest any time to find out. Suspend will totally cut it for you, I think.

I don't think I have used that command after altering swap, but I have only added a swap file once to my Raspberry Pi 2, after discovering that our friend oomkiller shut down a process. (I was puzzled to find out that no swap partition was made during install.) Others also seem to manage without it: https://www.thegeekdiary.com/how-to-inc ... -on-linux/
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#15 Post by wonder »

No, thanks to you!!
I'm sure you know the movie, and even more so with your knowledge of this subject, and precisely people our age know it even more :) I also know the ones by Bud Spencer and Terence Hill, I saw them all back in the day, but this specific one, Trinity, it's not that the title of the film is Trinity, but that it's a character, if I name you Neo, Morpheo.... I'm sure you already know who he is, hehe.
He is young, 12, but I was greatly surprised how he liked it, it was one day, they gave the first one, by chance, I told him, only 5 mins and we changed, he asked me to see it in its entirety, then he asked me to see the saga (he has seen up to the third) and it turns out it's his favorite movie!!! I think he feels or really likes the character of Trinity and Niope. Surprise for me, I never thought that at her age and that she is not a computer enthusiast, she would like it as much as she liked it, hehe.

I tried Trinity on that old laptop I have, I told her yesterday, and she was thrilled.

Hybrid suspension, as you say, surely it is some file but... as you say again, I think that the best thing is suspension alone, it was a bit for knowledge of the matter, to learn more, but I have tried hibernate and suspend, I think that the best thing in my case is to suspend, and so I have left it configured.

About the command, I have increased the swap to 6GB, but before I had moved it from the hard drive (to another SSD) now I have it back on the main one, in my NVME, looking for information on how to move the swap partition I found this:
https://wiki.debian.org/Hibernation
It is the final part, where it says: Changing or moving the swap partition
It came in handy, because I didn't know that apart from editing the fstab you also have to edit /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume
And that is where it says to execute said command, but I imagine that it is only if we move swap of hard disk or partition.
In my case, I have only resized the swap partition, giving it more space, I have not done anything else, the uuid of the partition is the same.

So, the SWAP stays at 6GB, I'll just suspend, I still have to decide if I keep it on my NVME or move the SWAP to another SSD.

Since I have or am doing other things as well, that have nothing to do with RAM or hibernation or the like, that will be in another thread.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like a novice just starting out... :)

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#16 Post by Hallvor »

Ah, of course! :) I have no idea why I couldn't remember that particular name. There even was a screensaver with a Matrix theme, and apparently it can still be found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjAg-ZsNjsU With a little luck, it is preinstalled in TDE. (Not sure about that, though.)

Making a full blown Matrix theme out of the laptop shouldn't be too difficult.

To my understanding, I think you need to run the command when moving the swap partition, but not when increasing or decreasing the size. But in any case, it doesn't hurt.

Don't worry about it; we're all still learning. :)
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#17 Post by wonder »

Although a few days have passed, I am answering again in this post because I have already located what caused it.

After this post, taking into account that my PC never turns off in the 365 days of a year (I always sleep it, but I don't turn it off, in any case, restart when there is a kernel update or similar) I opted for the suspend option then hibernate, I use KDE as I mentioned, and it's easy to configure.
The hybrid hibernation is focused on laptops, it suspends, but it hibernates when it is running out of battery, this is a desktop computer so, what interests me is sleeping (to resume it quickly) but in case it spends the whole night , it hibernates, in this way, the energy saving is greater.
I have it set to sleep, and within 25 minutes of sleeping, it goes into hibernation.
For this reason, and following the recommendations, I configured swap to the corresponding size to hibernate.

Well, yesterday after resuming, it happened again, but this time there was no "freeze" I think because of the swap. For a few seconds (10 or 20 seconds) the processors were almost at maximum (I see it for a widget) and the ram memory was almost at 100%.
After those seconds, the processors went down to their normal use but the ram use was still raised almost to 100%, I was able to open KsysGuard and I saw what was consuming that amount of memory....
Ksystemstats...was what was consuming that amount of ram.
Tried to hibernate but it didn't, just slept, on resume, same thing again. So I opted to kill Ksystemstats and at that point, everything was back to normal, ram usage...etc...
It only occurs to me that Ksystemstats is the widget, and for some reason, when resuming it does that, it's only happened to me 2 or 3 times, but finally, I was able to find what was happening.

These are a couple of screenshots, of the widget and of KsysGuard.

It hasn't happened to anyone else from what I see but... in case it happens to someone and it helps, this, and suspend then hibernate, for me, it's wonderful :)

Image

Image

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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#18 Post by Aki »

Hello,
wonder wrote: 2022-10-23 18:07 [..]
After those seconds, the processors went down to their normal use but the ram use was still raised almost to 100%, I was able to open KsysGuard and I saw what was consuming that amount of memory....
Ksystemstats...was what was consuming that amount of ram.
[..]
It only occurs to me that Ksystemstats is the widget, and for some reason, when resuming it does that, it's only happened to me 2 or 3 times, but finally, I was able to find what was happening.
It wasn't easy to identify the culprit.

With hindsight, there are some reports of a bug (a memory leak) in ksystemstats / ksysguard (for example https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=263203).
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#19 Post by Hallvor »

I am glad you found the problem. Thanks for posting!
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Re: Excessive memory usage, crash after resume...

#20 Post by wonder »

Aki wrote: 2022-10-24 08:11 Hello,
wonder wrote: 2022-10-23 18:07 [..]
After those seconds, the processors went down to their normal use but the ram use was still raised almost to 100%, I was able to open KsysGuard and I saw what was consuming that amount of memory....
Ksystemstats...was what was consuming that amount of ram.
[..]
It only occurs to me that Ksystemstats is the widget, and for some reason, when resuming it does that, it's only happened to me 2 or 3 times, but finally, I was able to find what was happening.
It wasn't easy to identify the culprit.

With hindsight, there are some reports of a bug (a memory leak) in ksystemstats / ksysguard (for example https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=263203).
Hallvor wrote: 2022-10-24 15:59 I am glad you found the problem. Thanks for posting!
Yes me too! Also, it's "nonsense" a simple widget, nothing more, just that :) if it happens again, I kill the process and solved.
Thank you!

And when answering again in this thread, I have seen that I forgot to answer a part of your last post:
Hallvor wrote: 2022-10-04 12:29 ...
To my understanding, I think you need to run the command when moving the swap partition, but not when increasing or decreasing the size. But in any case, it doesn't hurt.

Don't worry about it; we're all still learning. :)
I forgot to answer that, yes, I think the same, you only have to execute the command if we move the disk swap partition, but if it is enlarged or reduced, it is not necessary, although as you comment, it does not harm it :)

Yes, always learning but...sometimes one is left with the face of...so many years in derivatives thinking that one knows a little, even if it is only a little and...then you see that where you thought yes, it is no. .. :)

Thanks and regards!

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